Movie Channels and DD5.1, OAR Discussion

[Neild]

Show: Cursed
Studio: Miramax, Dimension, Alliance-Atlantis (Canada)
Channel: Movie Central HD
Audio: DD5.1

Show: Killer Bash
Studio: Regent Entertainment
Channel: Movie Central HD
Audio: 2.1 stereo
NOTES: This is one of those low-end made in Canada productions. IMDB lists the audio as 'Dolby' not 'Dolby Digital'. It's seems possible this never had a DD5.1 track???

Totals thus far:

DD5.1 --> 8 (73%)
2.1 --> 3 (27%)

[57]

Here's an old list that I started when TMN first started airing HD movies. It contains all the movies they aired for the first couple of years.

Once TMN started adding many more movies per month (they used to only have 1-2 new movies each month) and once more of the movies were OAR and DD5.1, I stopped keeping track.

You can see the ones that were DD5.1, the ones that were OAR, etc. You can also see that very few of the movies were DD5.1 (unless they were Cdn or HBO)

Movie / OAR / Shown / Dolby Audio*

15 Minutes 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
40 Days and 40 Nights 1.85 1.85 2.0
About Schmidt 1.85 1.85
AI 1.85 1.85 2.0
American Psycho 2.35 1.85? 2.0
And Starring Pancho Villa
As Himself 1.78 1.78 2.0 (HBO)
Angels In America 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
Anything Else 2.35
Austin Powers – Goldmember 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Bad Boys II 2.40
Band of Brothers 1.85 1.85 2.0
Blade II 2.35 1.85 2.0
Bridget Jones’ Diary 2.35 1.85 2.0
Carnivàle (Series) 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
Catch Me If You Can 1.85 1.85 5.1
The Cell 2.35 1.85 2.0
Cider House Rules 2.35 1.85? 2.0
Chicken Run 1.85 1.85 2.0
Chicago 1.85 1.85 5.1
Chocolat 1.85 1.85 2.0
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind 2.40 1.85 2.0
Confidence 2.35 1.33 2.0 (Order error by TMN on Aspect Ratio)
Dancer In The Dark 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Deadwood (Series) 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
Dracula 2000 2.35 1.85 2.0
Far From Heaven 1.85 1.85 2.0
Final Destination 2 1.85 1.85 2.0
Frailty 1.85 1.85 2.0
Freddy vs. Jason 2.35
Frida 1.85 1.85 2.0
Frequency 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Gangs of NY 2.35 1.85 2.0
Gladiator 2.35 1.85 2.0
Gosford Park 2.35 1.85 2.0
The Grey Zone 1.85 1.85 2.0
Hannibal 1.85 1.85 2.0
Head of State 1.85 1.85 2.0
House of 1000 Corpses 1.85 1.85 2.0
Hysterical Blindness 1.85 1.85 2.0
In The Bedroom 2.35 1.85 2.0
In The Dark 1.78 1.78 2.0
Iron Jawed Angels 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back 2.35 1.85 2.0
John Q 1.85 1.85 2.0
Kate & Leopold 1.85 1.85 2.0
Life As A House 2.00 1.85 2.0
Live From Baghdad 1.78 1.785 2.0 (5.1 HBO later)
Lord of the Rings 1 2.35 1.85 2.0
LOTR 2 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 5.1
The Man Who Wasn’t There 1.85 1.85 2.0
Legally Blonde 2.35 1.85 2.0
My House In Umbria 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
Millennium Actress 1.78 1.78
Minority Report 2.35 1.85 2.0
Ninth Gate 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Normal 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
The Others 1.85 1.85 2.0
Old School 2.35 1.85 2.0
Path to War 1.85 1.85 2.0
Perfect Husband 1.78 1.78
Point of Origin 1.85 1.85 2.0
Real Women Have Curves 1.78 1.78 2.0 (HBO)
The Ring 1.85 1.85 5.1
Road To Perdition 2.35 1.85 2.0
Rubber (Canadian Short 7 min.) 1.85 1.85 5.1 (TMN?)
Rush Hour 2 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Scary Movie 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Scary Movie 2 1.85 1.85 2.0
Secretary 1.85 1.85 2.0
Serendipity 1.85 1.85 2.0
Six Feet Under (series) 1.78 1.78 2.0(1) / 5.1(2&3) (HBO)
Shrek 1.85 1.85 2.0
Something the Lord Made 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
Sopranos (Series) 1.85 1.85 2.0
Spirit of the Stallion 1.85 1.85 5.1
Spy Kids 1.85 1.85 2.0
Spy Kids II 1.85 1.85 2.0
Strip Search 1.78 1.78 2.0
S. W. A. T. 2.35
Thirteen Days 1.85 1.85 2.0
Time Machine 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0
Town & Country 1.85 1.85 2.0
Traffic 1.85 1.85 2.0
The Tuxedo 1.85 1.85 2.0
Xchange 1.85 1.85 2.0
Undefeated 1.78 1.78 5.1 (HBO)
View From The Top 2.35 1.85 5.1
Wet Hot American Summer 1.85 1.85 2.0
What Lies Beneath 2.35 1.85 2.0
World Is Not Enough 2.35 2.35 (OAR) 2.0

[Neild]

Originally Posted by 57

Please also note that although Neild and I have been arguing (er discussing this issue) in this thread, we are both (I believe) trying to understand why we are not getting DD5.1 (and OAR) on 100% of our HD movies on MCHD/TMNHD.

That's exactly right, I respect 57 and I'm trying to keep this as a discussion not personal.

The observations being taken might show a pattern of a given studio or source that is refusing to provide 5.1 even when it is readily available.

So far in the observations, the major studios are providing DD5.1 in 100% of the cases.

One pattern does seem to be emerging, the 3 cases of non-DD5.1 are:

Troll - a 20 year old low budget picture, probably didn't have DD5.1 to begin with
Killer Bash - a low budget Can-Con production, again probably didn't have DD5.1 to begin with
Bright Young Things - what might be described as more of a 'niche' studio release??

So far from these observations at least it appears Movie Central is providing excellent DD5.1 coverage where it is available. There is no evidence yet of major studios blocking DD5.1

[57]

Neild, have a look at post 47. You may have missed it while typing.

[Neild]

Originally Posted by 57

Here's an old list that I started when TMN first started airing HD movies. It contains all the movies they aired for the first couple of years.

Once TMN started adding many more movies per month (they used to only have 1-2 new movies each month) and once more of the movies were OAR and DD5.1, I stopped keeping track.

You can see the ones that were DD5.1, the ones that were OAR, etc. You can also see that very few of the movies were DD5.1 (unless they were Cdn or HBO)

Nice list!

I'm not sure when that's from but it helps explain why you and I have a different take on this. You called me on my estimate of 70-80% of shows on Movie Central being DD5.1, but the observations prove I was exactly right on that. However looking at your list, I can see why you thought the prevalence was lower.

It almost appears that MC-HD has a way higher % of shows in DD5.1 than TMN-HD. Since I subscribe to MC-HD and you to TMN-HD, that could be why we see it so differently.

But it raises the question - why is MC-HD getting more shows in DD5.1 and TMN-HD so few? If it were a blanket studio policy, wouldn't both networks have a similar amount of DD5.1?

[Neild]

Originally Posted by JesseJ

Lord of the Rings is New Line, but was distributed by Alliance Atlantis in Canada.
My Hellboy DVD says Revolution/Columbia (Sony).

Taking this straight back to the original post, now we can see why a Hellboy without DD5.1 stands out. Most major studio releases are being shown in DD5.1 on MC-HD, even other films from the same studio team (Revolution/Sony-Columbia-Tristar)

[57]

Originally Posted by Neild

But it raises the question - why is MC-HD getting more shows in DD5.1 and TMN-HD so few? If it were a blanket studio policy, wouldn't both networks have a similar amount of DD5.1?

1. My list is old. As I stated, I stopped keeping track probably a year or two ago when more DD5.1 movies started to come out and after my conversation with my TMN-HD contact.

2. If you go to the MC and TMN-HD links I provided earlier in this thread (for December programming as an example), you will probably NOT see significant differences in the quantity of DD5.1 movies on either channel...

[57]

Originally Posted by Neild

Most major studio releases are being shown in DD5.1 on MC-HD

When I look at the December MC list, I find the following are not listed as DD5.1.

http://www.moviecentral.ca/schedule/PDF/30day_HD.pdf

Deadly Isolation.
Dawn of the Dead
Magnificent 7 Ride
Roller Boogie
Freddy vs Jason
Platoon
Perfect Score
Beyond the Sea
Are we there yet
Elephant
Seed of Chucky
Dry White Season
Tom Sawyer
Lovers Revenge
Swarmed
Third man out
Illegal in blue
Murder at the Presidio
Navy Seals
Lost in Translation
Killer upstairs
Navy Seals
Secret Window
Hitch
Stanley & Iris
Ned Kelly
Hotel Rwanda
Paycheck
Criss Cross
Guns of the magnificent 7
Lovers Revenge
Gospel of John
Cursed
Coach Carter
d.e.b.s
Bright Young Things
Just Between Friends
Machinist
Revenge of Pink Panther
The Babysitter
Spellcaster
Supersize Me
Pride and the Passion

Granted, some of these may have been DD5.1 and some are "old".

[Neild]

Originally Posted by 57

2. If you go to the MC and TMN-HD links I provided earlier in this thread (for December programming as an example), you will probably NOT see significant differences in the quantity of DD5.1 movies on either channel...

If you are relying on the guides that could be part of the issue. The guides are pretty unreliable about the aspect ratio and audio track of any given movie. It's almost like whoever writes them doesn't even take time to check the accuracy.

[Neild]

One question is whether Hellboy was missing DD5.1 on both MC-HD and TMN-HD? If so that suggests the source was holding back. Although I can't say for sure if separate sources are provided to MC and TMN or if they are really just one quasi-company that operates in both the East and the West.

[57]

If you look at the listings side-by-side though they are pretty consistent as to which movies are DD5.1 and which are not. As I said, there can certainly be some errors, but I'd expect there to be say 80-90% accuracy regarding DD5.1.

I don't recall if Hellboy was DD5.1 on TMNHD or not.

[JesseJ]

Sorry to talk about something different, but when a movie is not in 5.1, it is frequently presented in 2/1.0, or Dolby Surround, not simply Stereo. It is then up to the receiver to process the sound, be it Dolby PL/II/IIx or DTS Neo:6. While it is not 5 discrete channels, it frequently does an okay job representing the 5 channels.

[57]

If it is DD2.0, yes you will typically get pretty good surround sound (not everything has been properly encoded for DPL, but most stuff has.)

If the signal is DD1.0, you will NOT get surround sound, you will be listening strictly to the center channel if you invoke DPL.

I saw that Neild was frequently typing DD2.1. I don't believe there is any DD2.1, it's usually DD2.0 or DD5.1, with the occasional DD5.0 or DD1.0 programme.

[Alan Bealby]

My A/V Reciever shows most non DD5.1 sound on digital channels as DD2.0. Only a few show as DD2.0 with Dolby surround encoded. I rarely use my A/V receiver's sound processing modes so that DD2.0 with Dolby surround encoding is much better than the plain DD2.0 When surfing I can usually tell immediately when I hit a channel with DD2.0 with Dolby surround encoding just by the sound.

[nathan]

I can't imagine any modern program/movie not having DPL encoding. In fact, I'd suspect there'd have to be deliberate futzing with the 2.0 signal to remove the DPL encoding...something I can't imagine anyone actually doing...you probably wouldn't save any bandwidth since the DPL encoding is held within those two tracks anyways.

My Denon consistently reported DPL on pretty much all DD2.0 sources from TMN (when I had it).

Seems rather odd to me. No matter. I don't have TMN anymore anyways...