ON/QC - Ottawa, Outaouais, Eastern Ontario - OTA (CLOSED - See Post #1526)

[gmd]

I'm 14.58 miles from Camp Fortune and 15.29 miles from the Manotick tower.

I get WNPI-DT (73.99 mi) and WCFE-DT (at 96.78 mi) but not WWNY-DT (at 103 miles). There is only a difference in direction of 5.5 degrees between Manotick and WWNY-DT from my place.

-gmd

[mxg123]

Hi,

I'm unable to receive any Digital channels, although I would expect to receive at least CBC 25.

I have scanned for channels several times, and have moved the antenna 360 degrees.

Can anyone help me with this? Did I miss something in the setup procedure?

Thank you
Marc

PS. I live in the city of Ottawa, around Billings Bridge.

[mxg123]

I have a nine foot long antenna (UHF/VHF), on a flat roof that is about 27 foot high, and the tripod adds another about 7 feet. So the antenna is up in the air about 34 feet. Now, with the regular tuner, I do get ghosting effects, so I presume this comes from some interference, which I may be unable to avoid. (I think my antenna is a delhi 960)

Now last night, like I said, I did move the antenna 360 degrees around, and I saw no movement on the signal strength. I had that on the screen while I was moving the antenna with the rotator.

These locations you indicated, aren't the same at the Manotic tower? I get all the channels out of it, so I thought that is I got all the Manotic stations that I would automatically get all the other ones.

Before I give up, I just want to make certain that I can get at least one station, and that its not the unit itself that is a problem.

I still cannot believe that I'm living in the center of the nations capital, and this is the type of digital reception I'm getting, this may only be a true reflection of the state of the CRTC.

Marc
Desperate for some digital reception

[Tom.F.1]

Marc,
I'm not familiar with that tuner, but i can offer some advice on reception.
You said you have a combined UHF/VHF antenna? You may want to try it UHF only, or you can use an inline filter (vhf/uhf splitter at home depot or the source).
Most tuners will automatically attenuate all incoming signals to protect themselves. The rf first input section is not a tuner, its a wideband rf amp.
So, if you have a high power vhf analog in your area, the tuner won't be able to recognize a low power digital station.

Good luck!!

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by mxg123

Now, with the regular tuner, I do get ghosting effects, so I presume this comes from some interference, which I may be unable to avoid.

What channels do you get ghosting (multipath)?

Now last night, like I said, I did move the antenna 360 degrees around, and I saw no movement on the signal strength. I had that on the screen while I was moving the antenna with the rotator.

What channel did you have the tuner set to when you did your 360 degree rotation? If there wasn't a station broadcasting at that channel you obvously wouldn't see any change on your signal strength meter.

These locations you indicated, aren't the same at the Manotic tower? I get all the channels out of it, so I thought that is I got all the Manotic stations that I would automatically get all the other ones.

Ottawa has two towers (Manotic and Camp Fortune) and neither of them have any DTV stations yet. To get DTV you need to pick up stations from the US. As I said earlier WNPI-23DT from Norwood is probably your best bet, but you might be in a poor location to pick it up (the Manotic tower is almost directly between you and it). Regardless, Ottawa is considered deep fringe from all US stations.

I still cannot believe that I'm living in the center of the nations capital, and this is the type of digital reception I'm getting, this may only be a true reflection of the state of the CRTC.

Canada certainly is trailing the US with regards to DTV transmission. The CRTC seems to be letting each station decide their own time frame for migration with few consequences for not migrating.

[mxg123]

I get lots of ghosts from all my channels. All the ones I get from Manotic and Camp Fortune. All of them. And I just do not know what is causing this problem, is it a building that is close to my house, or is it a big tree somewhere.

Anyways I'm really in the center of Ottawa, not in the downtown, but really in the center, like very close to the Bank st. and the canal. I also know that we are in a valley here, so this may affect receiving anything souther than Manotic.

Maybe I did something wrong last night (I hope I did), I had the menu at the channel receiving signal. I thought this would be for all the channels (if any, 2 -69), and not just the one the STB was at at that moment. So you mean if I want to get # 23, then I put the channel there, then I go and the channel signal receiving menu, and see what the signal looks like?

So I guess I have some work to do tonight, lets hope its a bit success. I will update this forum as soon as I know.

Thanks for all the input I got.

Marc

[gmd]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The CRTC seems to be letting each station decide their own time frame for migration with few consequences for not migrating.

Plus, when a timeframe is set, it allows stations to ignore them. Totally behind, no sense of direction or management. They seem to busy with handling other stuff (like complaints regarding TV shows and radio content).

-gmd

[mxg123]

Originally Posted by Tom.F.1

Marc,
I'm not familiar with that tuner, but i can offer some advice on reception.
You said you have a combined UHF/VHF antenna? You may want to try it UHF only, or you can use an inline filter (vhf/uhf splitter at home depot or the source).
Most tuners will automatically attenuate all incoming signals to protect themselves. The rf first input section is not a tuner, its a wideband rf amp.
So, if you have a high power vhf analog in your area, the tuner won't be able to recognize a low power digital station.

Good luck!!

Are you referring to the tuner in the Samsung unit or the tuner in the TV?

I'm feeding the signal directly from my antenna to the Samsung digital box. The antenna's signal is being boosted by a channel master amp. So here you are recommending I put a splitter before it reaches the Samsung tuner?

When I was writting about all my ghosting problems, i was using the tuner with the Toshiba TV set. I get them all with the UHF and VHF signals.

Are you also sugesting that the VHF signal may be so strong that it kills the low digital signal?

Marc

[mxg123]

Well I just did a test, and I got partial success. Thanks for everyones input.

I was able to get a very weak signal at 23 having my antenna at around 110degrees, which I presume is past Manotic area. But the problem is now that the signal is very weak, and it keeps flashing in and out. Sometimes I get a burst of signal strength with full bars but most of the time its a flashing one bar. So I guess this is limited success. I was not able to see any of the channel though, no station came in.

Marc

[roger1818]

If you are getting partial success today then you should do better when the weather clears up and after dark.

Strange though that you are getting ghosting on all channels. Have you tried removing the pre-amp? You are only about 20km from both the Camp Fortune and Manotick towers and a pre-am shouldn't be necessary at that range. You will definitely need one though to pick up US channels.

The nice thing about OTA in Ottawa is there aren't many tall building, mountains or even giant trees that cause so many problems in other regions. You must have some sort of obstacle that the signals have to bend around. I would try to figure out what the obstacles are (Google Earth is a great tool for doing this) and then figure out what you can do about it (either moving the antenna or raising it).

[WZ1]

Originally Posted by mxg123

Well I just did a test, and I got partial success. Thanks for everyones input.

I was able to get a very weak signal at 23 having my antenna at around 110degrees, which I presume is past Manotic area. But the problem is now that the signal is very weak, and it keeps flashing in and out. Sometimes I get a burst of signal strength with full bars but most of the time its a flashing one bar. So I guess this is limited success. I was not able to see any of the channel though, no station came in.

Marc

I get the same issue with a samsung tuner in Toronto on some of the weaker Buffalo stations as well as a couple from Rochester, this is caused by taller buildings in the area scattering your signal. You will most likley not be able to recieve that channel.

Try moving the antenna 1 inch at a time, and try different angles of elevation as well, if you having multipath problems, try aiming the antenna at your wall or at the tallest building behind you as you may get the skip off the building.. infact i live so close to the cn tower that i cannot see it as the taller scotiabank building blocks my view.. so i aim the antenna at the taller building behind me and get 100% on all channels broadcast from the CN

[Tom.F.1]

Originally Posted by mxg123

Are you also sugesting that the VHF signal may be so strong that it kills the low digital signal?

Marc

Yes, I'm suggesting that the analog signals, especially the vhf, are so strong that the tuner is swamped with signal, so it can't recognize the low power digital station you want to recieve. Try using the uhf antenna only, and without the amp.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Tom.F.1

Yes, I'm suggesting that the analog signals, especially the vhf, are so strong that the tuner is swamped with signal, so it can't recognize the low power digital station you want to recieve. Try using the uhf antenna only, and without the amp.

I doubt if the problem is a VHF channel since the only VHF channel broadcast from Manotick (the Manotick tower is almost perfectly in line with Norwood from Marc's location) is CHCH on 11 and it is only broadcast at 25kW. It could be an FM station (thus either a VHF/UHF/FM splitter or an FM trap will help), but also could also be a UHF station, in which case it will be a real challenge.

Removing the pre-amp will probably improve local reception, but WNPI is about 120km away, and thus needs all the amplification it can get.

[mxg123]

I installed the UHF/VHF/FM splitter yesterday, and it seems to have improved the reception of WNPI station slightly (just a lot more flashing antenna locations.) The only difference is that I can move the antenna in a much wider angles (from 135 to 190), and I still keep getting only a flashy HDTV signal. Most of the time I only get the one flashing signal bar, with a few burst of full signal.

I tried at several times in the day and at night, for several hours, at times only moving the antenna slightly, one degree at a time, from 100 all the way to 200, a very long process. My HDTV indicator is on for most of these locations, indicating to me that the receiver is receiving something, but its never strong enough (I guess) to stay fully on, to receive the HD station.

I also tried to bypass the pre-amp, and when I did this, it completly killed most of the UHF stations, and the VHF were barelly receivable (full of snow). And no more HDTV indicator for channel 23 WNPI.

I now feel I'm facing a huge roadblock, and can not move forward, unless I moved south of Ottawa. The Ottawa valley seems to be a death trap for any HD signal from the US. People that might have success around here, are outside the Ottawa metro area, in the southern region, which is on a higher plateau. Being on this higher plateau, might be the simple reason why people in this forum had sucess with HD.

The only hope, it seems for me at this time, is in waiting for this fall's arrival of CBC HD in Ottawa. Unless anyone, in this forum, can suggest me anything else to try.

I had hope to get at least one HD station from the US, but all this entire costly test has proven, is that I cannot get one, at this moment.

Maybe the future will be clearer.

Marc

[old sparks]

Thanks for the heads up! Where can a fellow get a CM4221 at a reasonable price in the Ottawa valley?

Originally Posted by DaveM

I just did a scan to see if anything new showed up on my DTV receiver, and both channel 22 (CBOFT) and channel 25 (CBOT) have test patterns up! Counting the days until we have real HDTV programming being broadcast locally in Ottawa...

Dave