Jean Chretien is an embarassment

[XM4243]

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien told CBC-TV in an interview Tuesday night that the United States must accept some responsibility for the terror attacks of last September.

http://cbc.ca/stories/2002/09/12/chretien_jumbo020912

This is truly one of the most embarassing things I've ever heard a Prime Minister to say. To suggest that it was US faults that 19 Islamic fundamentalists committed suicide by slamming four jets into the WTC, Pentagon and a farmers field is absolute ludicrous.

How is the US responsible for the tyranny in Afghanistan?

In Jean's world, we should mark on 3,000 peoples graves, "you got what you deserved!"

[travisc]

You should probably open your eyes and realize that most of the world outside the U.S. feels that way. It doesn't mean that the attacks were justified or acceptable, but that they were a byproduct of US foreign policy over decades. The US is making a grave mistake in not taking some time to be a bit introspective and understand why they are so hated around the world, despite the many good things that they do. As long as they fail to do so, this hatred will continue and attacks will result. The US can't invade everyone, they can't kill every terrorist. Trying will only create more terrorists. Do you really think that an invasion of Iraq won't cause a huge backlash from Arab countries? It'll make the fury that caused 9/11 look like a little temper tantrum.

[XM4243]

It doesn't mean that the attacks were justified or acceptable

Thank-you, you made my point.

September 11th ocurred in 2001. Current American policy has been shaped by those events and the attacks on the USS Cole and American Embassies in Africa. The entire Arab world didn't complain when Clinton dropped cruise missile on Ossama after the USS Cole.

The convoluted logic of Chretien is that the current handling of the Israeli and Palestinian crisis and Iraq justifies an event that took place a year ago.

The reality is that Osama bin Laden, justified his attacks on the US Cole, US embassies and WTC because of the US troops stationed on Saudi Arabian soil. Remeber that 15 of 19 of the terrorists were Saudi's.

The reality is that the entire Arab world (with the exception of Iraq) supported the Gulf War including Saudi Arabia which logistically supported the Americans.

[travisc]

Having not seen the interview, and only the news stories about it, Chretien didn't specifically mention Israel, Palestine or Iraq. He was speaking in general terms. You don't think that the U.S. supporting Afghanistan until the USSR pulled out, then leaving them to rot pissed people off over there? Ignoring Pakistan for years, then suddenly becoming good buddies when they were needed? Bush stated a few days ago that post-Saddam Iraq is not the U.S. problem. They're free to invade and eliminate their government, but take no responsibility for the consequences. That's exactly why people lose respect for the US.

[Sketcher]

I say good for Jean. It's time that (I guess since Trudeau) someone stood up for Canada to the US! And not too scared or politically correct (no pun intended) to keep his/her mouth shut.

[james99]

Those comments are shocking, just shocking. The hatred towards the US is a result of government controlled media in various parts of the world.

The radicals remind of the Hitler Youth.

[57]

It was very interesting to hear some of the US media comments yesterday, during the 9/11 ceremonies. The US media basically slagged countries like Germany and France because they didn't agree with the need for an "upcoming/immediate" Iraq invasion.

The US media actually had the temerity to say that France and Germany were acting that way because of internal interests like oil. Look in the mirror people! What interest does the US have in most remote places for the past 100 years? Oil...

None of this justifies terrorist actions, however, as mentioned by Travisc, it does explain why some people don't particularly like the USA and their "I'm right, you're wrong" or "You're either with us or against us" attitude.

The US' unilateral decisions regarding the following subjects during just the past couple of years have not exactly endeared them to the world community...

Nuclear arms treaty – stepped away from the table.
Kyoto (CO2) – stepped away from the table.
Toxic Chemicals Treaty – stepped away from the table.
Small arms treaty – stepped away from the table
Defense Shield – USA will do what it likes…
Tariffs on Steel – keep those inefficient USA mills running (get the vote)
Farm Bill (US$180 Billion) – gift to “Big Farm” in swing states (against Doha Policy)
SUVs – keep on trucking and burning that gasoline as fast as possible.

[XM4243]

None of this justifies terrorist actions

Good it seems everyone agrees with me!

Having your doubts about US foreign policy is one thing. Being critical of US foreign policy is another.

Suggesting that the innocent slaughter of thousands of civilians from Canada the US and some fifty other countries was in any way shape or form "understandable" is outlandish.

[james99]

and of course you have the US's stance against Cuba. The US media also included Canada in the German/France mix.

[57]

Originally Posted by XM4243

Good it seems everyone agrees with me!

Having your doubts about US foreign policy is one thing. Being critical of US foreign policy is another.

We agree that acts of terror are abhorrent.

We do, however, feel that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that being critical of US foreign policy is not only justified in some cases, but actually to be encouraged.

We may all agree with the ultimate philosophy of ridding the world of nuclear weapons, and other weapons of mass destruction, but, it may be possible to achieve this without war. The USA and FSU (former Soviet Union) were able to take large strides in the approriate direction without war.

[HammerJoe]

Myself I think the Americans are being brainwashed by the government and that's why they don't believe that the 9/11 events are caused by their foreign policy over the last decades.
Lately we don't hear anymore about war on terrorism we hear about war on Iraq.
What does Iraq have that interest so much the Americans???
It's not hard to guess.
I heard on the radio the other day some congressman discussing about what to do with the "oil business" in Iraq.
He was saying that to be part of the oil business countris have to be there since the beginning otherwise they would be left out of it...

Us will have another 9/11 coming in no time...

[squigly1]

Love the US. Love GWB. France can go to hell and Saudia Arabia is no friend.

There, I've said it. Can't wait to see the responses.

[beerme1]

Originally Posted by squigly1

Love the US. Love GWB. France can go to hell and Saudia Arabia is no friend.

There, I've said it. Can't wait to see the responses.

squigly1 is this what you were looking for?
Right on!


Something some of you seem to overlook, the US will forever more be in a pre emptive mode to prevent another attack. And frankly if you don't like it perhaps if the mother country were the site of an act of terror of that magnitude would change your perspective.

Iraq: oil issue aside, is and will always be a threat to it's neighbors which of course include Israel and I don't see any other country standing up for them. ( deserved or not )


XM has said all that needs to be
"Suggesting that the innocent slaughter of thousands of civilians from Canada the US and some fifty other countries was in any way shape or form "understandable" is outlandish.


57 do you think that you can negotiate with a regime such as what exists in certain terror laden countries? Not me but more power to you.
Yes USSR and USA made gains. Of course either one could still Nuke the world ten times over couldn't they?

57 again,
"Defense Shield – USA will do what it likes…"
And why not? It's called defense.

"Tariffs on Steel – keep those inefficient USA mills running (get the vote) "
I suppose you are blind then to the Japanese dumping of steel.

"SUVs – keep on trucking and burning that gasoline as fast as possible."
I like living in a country where I am given freedom of choice. What someone does with it is their business.
If you wish to drive a little car good for you. Doesn't mean I have to. Although I am really keen on the new Mini's. But I suppose they wouldn't pass your efficiency standards as they are to much fun and fun equals MPG. Little car or not.
Funny thing though those F1 cars huh? How do you step down to watch that utter waste of fossil fuels while watching thanks to some coal powered generator plant.
Talk the talk, walk the walk.

Freedom not Marxism for me thanks.

Lets say China invaded Japan. Who do you think goes in? Would the US not live up to it's obligations?
What if Canada were attacked? Who do you think would step up?

Sorry if you don't like the way of life you currently enjoy. I know I do.
Of course greenhouse gases etc. are a concern but one could also live with the Mennonites to further the cause.

I suspect kingsclear will be weighing in with his anti US views now. Oops, we have already done that some time ago during the Supreme Court dealings.

[57]

If you wish to drive a little car good for you.

Actually I ride a bike to work almost every day, including the winter and walk or ride to do most errands. When necessary, I do have a fuel efficient (and fun) car for longer journeys and necessary drives.

Talk the talk, walk the walk.

I try to, in most things, but as you say, we don't necessarily want to live like menonites. I rarely drive, my wife, like me, also lives only 1.5 km from work, my thermostat is set appropriately summer and winter, I live in a small, well insulated home, with the highest possible efficiency furnace, that costs only about $500 a year to heat, we turn off our lights when not in the room, we use off-peak power (I was one of the pioneers of the power-shift programme in Toronto), we have reduced our garbage to 1 small can every two weeks, we compost everything compostable, we reduce as much as possible and recycle everything that the city will allow. I only buy things when the old ones are pretty well "shot" and even then, I pass the "old stuff" to others, instead of throwing it away. We can all do our "bit", but the point is, many people don't even try (how many of the above can everyone check off their lists?).

Yes, I watch F1 and CART, but to tell the truth, if both stopped tomorrow, I wouldn't miss them at all. Some of the technologies that were developed in these racing series have actually gone towards assisting fuel efficency and safety, (dual camshafts, turbochargers, carbon fibre, etc.) although by limiting the technogy recently, this is no longer the case, much.

On this forum, we are all pleased and lucky to live in free countries so that we can have open discussions like these. That's what democracies are all about.

We all know that the US "comes to the aid of a friend" and we are thankful for that. But we also know that "my country right or wrong" went out with the Vietnam war.

Several people in this particular thread have indicated that there is "reason for external dislike of the US". This comes from people living in a "friendly country" and the US' largest trading partner and strong ally. If we can say these things (that we understand why there is hatred of the US - not that we hate the US), what do you think that fanatical individuals in far away places, that think they have been wronged by the US, think?

That's the point we're making.

[squigly1]

After the US is done with Iraq, they should go kick some french butt in France. They're about as two faced as you can get. They'd stab us in the back if they could. Unless, of course, they need help. Then they would pretend to be the US's best friend. It wouldn't surprise me if they were selling Iraq weapons, chemicals, rods, whatever.

As for what other think about the US, who cares. They're all jealous.