QC - Quebec (outside Montreal, Gatineau, Eastern Townships) - OTA - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

FranKllr · 2010-12-14, 07:54 PM

Hi,

I need advice for post-transition problem. This is for my grand-mother. She is living countryside and right behind a mountain. Only VHF appear to get through. She only watches CKTM-TV CH13 (SRC) and want to continue. Problem is after transition, it will go to CH28! She has a corner yagi (I don't know brand/model) on a tower. Is there anything to do? Or would it be possible to try for CBVT-DT CH12 (SRC)? After transition it is suppose to double its power...

TVFool
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...da32fc54bc6e24
Topographic map.

Thanks!

downbeat · 2010-12-14, 09:17 PM

Do you already receive CBMT-1 on Channel 28 currently? If you do, it might be a feasible catch as a post-transition DTV station.
In any case, you might as well try for CBVT-DT now — Radio-Canada recently got CRTC approval to maintain its current ERP and HAAT for that station.
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2010/2010-849.htm

FranKllr · 2010-12-14, 09:57 PM

Can only receive VHF, so channel CH8 and CH13, rest don't make it through. Someone 2 km to the south, but in front of the Church with a indoor antenna (temporally setup, I made the holl_ands's "UHF+Hi-VHF Bowtie-In-Loop") was able to get 8, 13 and 45 but not 28.

About CBVT-DT, Industry Canada data suggest it could go from currently 2450 to 4900.

I guess CBVT-DT is the only hope to get SRC.

downbeat · 2010-12-14, 10:16 PM

CBVT's ERP could go as high as 4.9 kW if CBC/SRC wanted, but as the link above suggests, they aren't going there.

mille · 2010-12-15, 10:26 AM

May be her best hope will be to install a UHF arrow style antenna (exterior)
like the one i installed at the cottage in the Laurentians
HD-9032 (UHF Only) + a pre-amp

and you turn the antenna to catch the signal, may be channel 28 is bouncing at a nearby mountain.
Did great for me
It will be easier to aim the antenna when the signal will be digital, with the signal meter of the TV or the converter box...

stampeder · 2010-12-15, 08:46 PM

FranKllr do you have a photo of her antenna?

FranKllr · 2010-12-16, 06:28 PM

No. I will try to take one this weekend.

FranKllr · 2010-12-30, 04:30 PM

I went there today. Here are the photos. There are actually two antennas there.

tvlurker · 2010-12-30, 05:02 PM

It's hard to tell from the picture if the antennas are higher than the trees.
According to the TVFool, your grandmother should be able to get the Trois Rivieres UHF stations with those types of antennas, assuming there aren't nearby trees in the way.

Some ideas:

1. Is it possible that your grandmother's TV is in "Cable" or "CATV" mode. That would make UHF appear to not work, since the channels above 13 are mapped differently.

2. From the picture, it looks like she's got 300 ohm twin lead. The twin lead may have deteriorated, and/or the connection may have come loose at the antenna or combiner. Replacing this with RG-6 cable and a preamp/combiner with 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output should help a lot.

3. Is there a rotor on the tower? It's hard to tell from the picture. If so, you'd need to rotate to get CBVT-DT. If not, you'd need to turn the antenna(s), and then you'd probably lose out on the T-R stations.

Good luck. That's a pretty impressive set of antennas there. Others more versed in commercial antenna design can probably identify the specific models.

stampeder · 2010-12-30, 05:10 PM

That giant, boombastic lower one is a Delhi-Jerrold VHF/FM and was considered one of the top DXing antennas of the 1970s-'80s.

If you take it down someone would probably think about buying it, but if you keep it you can clean it up, straighten all the elements, and check/repair any problems and then put it up again.

The top one looks to be a fairly common Winegard/Antennacraft/Radio Shack model (same one sold by all three) or similar, but there are much better choices now, especially the Antennas Direct 91XG. If you are able to build your own antenna I'd suggest a DBGH to really grab the distant UHF signals. Judging from the map you gave, it seems to me that the UHF antenna should still be able to "see around" that mountain's edge.

Which ever UHF you choose, put it up at the top of the pole and aim it for CBMT-DT Channel 28 in Trois-Rivières, then re-install that big VHF below it and aim it for CBVT-DT Channel 12 in Quėbec City, then combine their outputs. I agree that fresh cabling would be a must. This is all assuming that it is safe to go up that tower and that the cost suits her budget.

FranKllr · 2010-12-30, 07:55 PM

The rotor is broken or just jammed into the trees. Those trees are the only one around. In direction of CBMT-DT (trois-riv.), there is a field of maybe 200+ meters, then tree + mountain. Direction of CBVT-DT (qc) is clear.

I will check TV settings next time. I think they are good.
There is the coax cable, a box then it goes into TV. If this is an Amp, could I just remove that? There is only 1 TV plugged to the antennas.

Ok, I will verify if that tower is safe to climb. Trim the trees, change cable, add pre-amp and turn the Delhi-Jerrold to Québec. That will be a good start. But I won't do it in winter, will have to wait for spring.

Thanks a lot guys

Betamax · 2010-12-30, 08:34 PM

I think that you will need to wait until CKTM-TV 13 analog is shutdown, because it can cause adjacent interference with CBVT-DT 12.

tvlurker · 2010-12-31, 12:57 AM

I wouldn't presume that 13 would interfere with 12 on that monster antenna. They're at about 75 degrees apart from each other, and that's likely to provide at least a 30dB null towards 13 when pointed towards Quebec's channel 12. According to TVFool , there is only about a 34dB difference between them, so I don't think 13 analog will be a problem with that antenna.

stampeder · 2010-12-31, 01:46 AM

Yep, look at all the directors on that big VHF antenna - that means that it has an extremely directional beamwidth. That's what made it so popular as a DXing antenna.

MageMinds · 2012-01-19, 01:57 PM

I tried to find this thread, but I failed, probably because there aren't many English channels is this area. Anyways I decided to start one!

But I'm looking for an answer about a problem I have with CKMI-DT-2 RF 11 located in Sherbrooke. Since yesterday morning I can't seem to see the channel, my USB tuner can't lock on the channel like there are nothing on that channel. Maybe the antenna got damaged during the wind storm of the night of January 17? I'd like to know if I'm the only one.

I'm located in Centre-du-Quebec with LOS to the Sherbrooke transmitting tower, I used to receive CKMI-DT-2 100% according to my USB tuner. Now... nothing.

I also had trouble with CKSH-DT, they had signal but no program in it, but that problem is now gone.

Adding to that CIVS-DT was completely down too, live CKMI-DT-2, but has now been repaired.

What's happening to CKMI-DT-2, please confirm I'm not alone in the dark.

2010-12-14, 07:54 PM	#1
FranKllr Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Shawinigan, QC Posts: 84	QC - Quebec (outside Montreal, Gatineau, Eastern Townships) - OTA Hi, I need advice for post-transition problem. This is for my grand-mother. She is living countryside and right behind a mountain. Only VHF appear to get through. She only watches CKTM-TV CH13 (SRC) and want to continue. Problem is after transition, it will go to CH28! She has a corner yagi (I don't know brand/model) on a tower. Is there anything to do? Or would it be possible to try for CBVT-DT CH12 (SRC)? After transition it is suppose to double its power... TVFool http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...da32fc54bc6e24 Topographic map. Thanks!

2010-12-15, 10:26 AM	#5
mille Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: (1)montréal /Mile-End, CM4228 , Rotor (2) Ste-Marguerite-lac-masson Posts: 901	arrow uhf antenna May be her best hope will be to install a UHF arrow style antenna (exterior) like the one i installed at the cottage in the Laurentians HD-9032 (UHF Only) + a pre-amp and you turn the antenna to catch the signal, may be channel 28 is bouncing at a nearby mountain. Did great for me It will be easier to aim the antenna when the signal will be digital, with the signal meter of the TV or the converter box...

2010-12-30, 05:10 PM	#10
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	That giant, boombastic lower one is a Delhi-Jerrold VHF/FM and was considered one of the top DXing antennas of the 1970s-'80s. If you take it down someone would probably think about buying it, but if you keep it you can clean it up, straighten all the elements, and check/repair any problems and then put it up again. The top one looks to be a fairly common Winegard/Antennacraft/Radio Shack model (same one sold by all three) or similar, but there are much better choices now, especially the Antennas Direct 91XG. If you are able to build your own antenna I'd suggest a DBGH to really grab the distant UHF signals. Judging from the map you gave, it seems to me that the UHF antenna should still be able to "see around" that mountain's edge. Which ever UHF you choose, put it up at the top of the pole and aim it for CBMT-DT Channel 28 in Trois-Rivières, then re-install that big VHF below it and aim it for CBVT-DT Channel 12 in Quėbec City, then combine their outputs. I agree that fresh cabling would be a must. This is all assuming that it is safe to go up that tower and that the cost suits her budget. Last edited by stampeder; 2010-12-30 at 05:28 PM.

2012-01-19, 01:57 PM	#15
MageMinds Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 70	QC - Estrie, Centre-du-Quebec I tried to find this thread, but I failed, probably because there aren't many English channels is this area. Anyways I decided to start one! But I'm looking for an answer about a problem I have with CKMI-DT-2 RF 11 located in Sherbrooke. Since yesterday morning I can't seem to see the channel, my USB tuner can't lock on the channel like there are nothing on that channel. Maybe the antenna got damaged during the wind storm of the night of January 17? I'd like to know if I'm the only one. I'm located in Centre-du-Quebec with LOS to the Sherbrooke transmitting tower, I used to receive CKMI-DT-2 100% according to my USB tuner. Now... nothing. I also had trouble with CKSH-DT, they had signal but no program in it, but that problem is now gone. Adding to that CIVS-DT was completely down too, live CKMI-DT-2, but has now been repaired. What's happening to CKMI-DT-2, please confirm I'm not alone in the dark.

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2010-12-14, 09:17 PM	#2
downbeat Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,564	Do you already receive CBMT-1 on Channel 28 currently? If you do, it might be a feasible catch as a post-transition DTV station. In any case, you might as well try for CBVT-DT now — Radio-Canada recently got CRTC approval to maintain its current ERP and HAAT for that station. http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2010/2010-849.htm

2010-12-14, 09:57 PM	#3
FranKllr Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Shawinigan, QC Posts: 84	Can only receive VHF, so channel CH8 and CH13, rest don't make it through. Someone 2 km to the south, but in front of the Church with a indoor antenna (temporally setup, I made the holl_ands's "UHF+Hi-VHF Bowtie-In-Loop") was able to get 8, 13 and 45 but not 28. About CBVT-DT, Industry Canada data suggest it could go from currently 2450 to 4900. I guess CBVT-DT is the only hope to get SRC.

2010-12-14, 10:16 PM	#4
downbeat Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,564	CBVT's ERP could go as high as 4.9 kW if CBC/SRC wanted, but as the link above suggests, they aren't going there.

2010-12-15, 08:46 PM	#6
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	FranKllr do you have a photo of her antenna?

2010-12-16, 06:28 PM	#7
FranKllr Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Shawinigan, QC Posts: 84	No. I will try to take one this weekend.

2010-12-30, 04:30 PM	#8
FranKllr Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Shawinigan, QC Posts: 84	I went there today. Here are the photos. There are actually two antennas there.

2010-12-30, 05:02 PM	#9
tvlurker Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Craig Henry (Greenbank/Hunt Club), Nepean, ON Posts: 2,729	It's hard to tell from the picture if the antennas are higher than the trees. According to the TVFool, your grandmother should be able to get the Trois Rivieres UHF stations with those types of antennas, assuming there aren't nearby trees in the way. Some ideas: 1. Is it possible that your grandmother's TV is in "Cable" or "CATV" mode. That would make UHF appear to not work, since the channels above 13 are mapped differently. 2. From the picture, it looks like she's got 300 ohm twin lead. The twin lead may have deteriorated, and/or the connection may have come loose at the antenna or combiner. Replacing this with RG-6 cable and a preamp/combiner with 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output should help a lot. 3. Is there a rotor on the tower? It's hard to tell from the picture. If so, you'd need to rotate to get CBVT-DT. If not, you'd need to turn the antenna(s), and then you'd probably lose out on the T-R stations. Good luck. That's a pretty impressive set of antennas there. Others more versed in commercial antenna design can probably identify the specific models.

2010-12-30, 07:55 PM	#11
FranKllr Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Shawinigan, QC Posts: 84	The rotor is broken or just jammed into the trees. Those trees are the only one around. In direction of CBMT-DT (trois-riv.), there is a field of maybe 200+ meters, then tree + mountain. Direction of CBVT-DT (qc) is clear. I will check TV settings next time. I think they are good. There is the coax cable, a box then it goes into TV. If this is an Amp, could I just remove that? There is only 1 TV plugged to the antennas. Ok, I will verify if that tower is safe to climb. Trim the trees, change cable, add pre-amp and turn the Delhi-Jerrold to Québec. That will be a good start. But I won't do it in winter, will have to wait for spring. Thanks a lot guys

2010-12-30, 08:34 PM	#12
Betamax Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Québec, QC Posts: 969	I think that you will need to wait until CKTM-TV 13 analog is shutdown, because it can cause adjacent interference with CBVT-DT 12.

2010-12-31, 12:57 AM	#13
tvlurker Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Craig Henry (Greenbank/Hunt Club), Nepean, ON Posts: 2,729	I wouldn't presume that 13 would interfere with 12 on that monster antenna. They're at about 75 degrees apart from each other, and that's likely to provide at least a 30dB null towards 13 when pointed towards Quebec's channel 12. According to TVFool , there is only about a 34dB difference between them, so I don't think 13 analog will be a problem with that antenna.

2010-12-31, 01:46 AM	#14
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Yep, look at all the directors on that big VHF antenna - that means that it has an extremely directional beamwidth. That's what made it so popular as a DXing antenna.