Official "New Max" discussion (Microsoft Mediaroom) - Page 11 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

m3t4lw01f · 2011-02-16, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikker

you guys are just confusing things

media manager is the 2nd iteration of max

met4lw01f is referring to the different version of Media center (2004, 2005(xp), vista media center, and now win7)

Ah hah! I knew there was some confusion.

In it's life, Max has had three major changes, correct? I've had Max since it's been available in Saskatoon pretty much (After Shaw decided to treat me poorly so I cancelled all my services with them) and I only remember three major changes to the service.

Maybe I'm forgetting one though.

Either way, back on topic: The new Max, in my opinion, is definitely the best attempt yet. If they ever allow XBOX360's as set tops, I may consider switching over (I don't want a Sasktel box at each TV in addition to the 360's I already have there now).

m3t4lw01f · 2011-02-16, 12:04 PM

One more thought occurred to me just now. I've read a few reports of people unsatisfied with the speed of the new Max. Whether that's channel changes, guide navigation, or otherwise.

I'm curious if that's a network issue, a set top box issue, or a head end hardware issue?

My thought on how this actually works (but I have no idea in reality) is similar to how an XBOX360 can be used as an extender for Media Center. That is, the entire system is hosted elsewhere and the box just acts kind of like remote desktop to that main system.

In other words, is the Motorola box actually doing any heavy lifting, or is it just doing a kind of remote desktop session into Sasktel's hardware at their CO?

If the box is doing any heavy lifting, I would say that the box may be the limiting factor (And perhaps using a 360 as a set top for Max would solve it?) but if not, then perhaps Sasktel could beef up their head end to make it quicker.

Anyone know any of the details about how it actually works?

pappcam · 2011-02-16, 12:27 PM

I always thought that IP based TV did all the heavy lifting at the switch and not at the set top box.

m3t4lw01f · 2011-02-16, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappcam

I always thought that IP based TV did all the heavy lifting at the switch and not at the set top box.

I would imagine most of the heavy lifting is performed on the provider's head end and the set top box is only responsible for displaying what it's sent and decoding the video bitstream.

But I don't know for sure, and the speed issues people have been complaining about are leading me to wonder how MediaRoom actually works. :-)

Viper550 · 2011-02-16, 07:16 PM

So yeah, I guess, just to make this clear

Max (v1) = Pace STB and ... whatever firmware it used
Max (v2) = Motorola STB and iMagic/Alcatel Media Manager firmware
"New" Max (Max v3) = Motorola STB and Mediaroom firmware

I think the laggy guide may be the box's fault. I've only gotten major UI lag on a high-definition TV. On the standard definition televisions, its actually pretty responsive, and the guide plops up with the same amount of time the old one did. We don't have DVRs here, so they're all VIP1200's.

I have noticed that Telus and AT&T have been issuing these Cisco set-top boxes lately, do they run Mediaroom any better than the Motorola ones?

Dr.Dave · 2011-02-16, 07:36 PM

Viper550, MTS and Bell Fibe use Motorola VIP12xx series for Mediaroom and I haven't heard any complaints about responsiveness.

lcann25 · 2011-02-16, 09:24 PM

Just discovered something I actually LIKE about the new max. I have 2 HD boxes, one DVR and one regular box. If I set the DVR to record 2 HD shows at the same time, it will Pull the stream from the second receiver and allow viewing of an SD live stream while recording the other two. Even more impressive is that you can record this third stream while recording the other 2 streams! This of course disables the other receiver which I DONT like, but I don't use the second receiver often.

m3t4lw01f · 2011-02-17, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Dave

Viper550, MTS and Bell Fibe use Motorola VIP12xx series for Mediaroom and I haven't heard any complaints about responsiveness.

I'm wondering then if this isn't a hardware issue at Sasktel. Underpowered servers, that sort of thing. You'd think the requirements for Mediaroom would be fairly strict from Microsoft though (similar to the requirement for windows phone 7, the specs of the device have to meet certain criteria). You wouldn't be able to just put it on any old piece of hardware.

It's either that or people with MTS/Bell Fibe are less discerning? Doubtful.

Tikker · 2011-02-17, 09:33 AM

I think it's just getting used to it, to be honest

The media manager guide was ridiculously fast to scroll thru, where mediaroom is much more like the bell guide

ie the old MM guide, you could hit the guide, scroll down, and go thru all 999 channels in about 4 seconds

now it takes about 1 second per page of channels, which to me is where it's kinda supposed to be

coming from starchoice/shaw direct, the new "slow" guide, is still faster than that, so to me it feels nice and snappy

but I see where the complaints are coming from.
I don't agree, but I can see why they're generated

m3t4lw01f · 2011-02-17, 09:48 AM

I've been using media center for so long that I'm used to how it works (about 1/2 second per page, unless you hold the page button down, then it's about 1/4 second). It's pretty snappy.

My folks have a very old Star Choice box, and you can make a cup of tea between pressing the guide button and the guide actually coming up on screen. My in-laws have Bell satellite, and I find their guide is decent for speed. I should really connect my Sasktel box directly to a TV some time just to check out the new stuff (I've never really looked at it to tell you the truth).

Dr.Dave · 2011-02-17, 11:45 AM

I think Tikker has the answer. It sounds like the previous MAX was blazing fast. I think part of the issue is Mediaroom generates the PIP as you scroll through the guide which obviously takes time.

Here are a few tips for using the guide:

- Type the channel number to go to a channel more than a few pages away.
- Use the FF button to advance a day at a time.
- You can customize the guide to remove channels you never watch to remove clutter.
- Use left arrow and press OK on the channel number to see the channel in "list view".

Tikker · 2011-02-17, 01:03 PM

The Media Room guide is slower than Media Center, but as Dr Dave pointed out, it does a PIP preview that MCE will never do.

I would love a hybrid of the 2, but I think I give a slight edge to the MediaRoom guide. much easier to avoid commercials with it.

coming from MCE mediaroom is going to feel very intuitive, but some of the changes didn't make sense to me, especially the series recording

that's my one real gripe, but now that I understand the difference, it's not really a huge deal, but it's another thing to get used to

m3t4lw01f · 2011-02-17, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikker

The Media Room guide is slower than Media Center, but as Dr Dave pointed out, it does a PIP preview that MCE will never do.

I would love a hybrid of the 2, but I think I give a slight edge to the MediaRoom guide. much easier to avoid commercials with it.

coming from MCE mediaroom is going to feel very intuitive, but some of the changes didn't make sense to me, especially the series recording

that's my one real gripe, but now that I understand the difference, it's not really a huge deal, but it's another thing to get used to

Yeah, there's no "picture-in-picture" browsing in the guide. The currently playing media is in the background on Vista media center (Not sure how Win7 handles it...haven't played with Win7 MC).

That's actually a neat feature, though I've never had it before so I don't know what I'm missing, lol.

If Sasktel enables the use of XBOX360's as set tops I may just bite and get the PVR. Until then, I won't, as I don't have room for their set top box at each TV in addition to the 360 I have there now.

dirtyharry2 · 2011-02-17, 03:55 PM

I would be thrilled to disable PiP in the guide if it would make it more responsive. Note, I don't have a problem with all delays; a delay when changing channels is perfectly acceptable - how many people actually flip through channels nowadays rather than looking at the guide and going directly to a desired program? If I am wanting to check what is on next tuesday, again I have no problem with some seek/delay while the information is retrieved.

However, if all I want to do is check what is on channels 300-400 at this very second, out of necessity I need to access 10 or 20 'pages' very quickly. To my mind, I am accessing a simple, text-based, information system, which is actually downloaded ahead of time and stored.

The problem seems to be the PiP, in particular HD PiP.

As it stands right now, I hate navigating. On occasion, it has frustrated me to the point of turning off the tv and doing something else.

Dr.Dave · 2011-02-18, 09:59 AM

@dirtyharry2, I think it's easier to type 300 into the guide than go through 10 or 20 pages.

2011-02-16, 07:16 PM	#155
Viper550 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 161	So yeah, I guess, just to make this clear Max (v1) = Pace STB and ... whatever firmware it used Max (v2) = Motorola STB and iMagic/Alcatel Media Manager firmware "New" Max (Max v3) = Motorola STB and Mediaroom firmware I think the laggy guide may be the box's fault. I've only gotten major UI lag on a high-definition TV. On the standard definition televisions, its actually pretty responsive, and the guide plops up with the same amount of time the old one did. We don't have DVRs here, so they're all VIP1200's. I have noticed that Telus and AT&T have been issuing these Cisco set-top boxes lately, do they run Mediaroom any better than the Motorola ones?

2011-02-17, 09:48 AM	#160
m3t4lw01f Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saskatoon, SK Posts: 80	I've been using media center for so long that I'm used to how it works (about 1/2 second per page, unless you hold the page button down, then it's about 1/4 second). It's pretty snappy. My folks have a very old Star Choice box, and you can make a cup of tea between pressing the guide button and the guide actually coming up on screen. My in-laws have Bell satellite, and I find their guide is decent for speed. I should really connect my Sasktel box directly to a TV some time just to check out the new stuff (I've never really looked at it to tell you the truth). __________________ ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO with AMD PhenomII X6 T1075 and 8GB RAM Win7 Home Premium->XBOX360 Extenders

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2011-02-16, 12:04 PM	#152
m3t4lw01f Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saskatoon, SK Posts: 80	One more thought occurred to me just now. I've read a few reports of people unsatisfied with the speed of the new Max. Whether that's channel changes, guide navigation, or otherwise. I'm curious if that's a network issue, a set top box issue, or a head end hardware issue? My thought on how this actually works (but I have no idea in reality) is similar to how an XBOX360 can be used as an extender for Media Center. That is, the entire system is hosted elsewhere and the box just acts kind of like remote desktop to that main system. In other words, is the Motorola box actually doing any heavy lifting, or is it just doing a kind of remote desktop session into Sasktel's hardware at their CO? If the box is doing any heavy lifting, I would say that the box may be the limiting factor (And perhaps using a 360 as a set top for Max would solve it?) but if not, then perhaps Sasktel could beef up their head end to make it quicker. Anyone know any of the details about how it actually works?

2011-02-16, 12:27 PM	#153
pappcam Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 310	I always thought that IP based TV did all the heavy lifting at the switch and not at the set top box.

2011-02-16, 07:36 PM	#156
Dr.Dave Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 4,695	Viper550, MTS and Bell Fibe use Motorola VIP12xx series for Mediaroom and I haven't heard any complaints about responsiveness.

2011-02-16, 09:24 PM	#157
lcann25 Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 20	Just discovered something I actually LIKE about the new max. I have 2 HD boxes, one DVR and one regular box. If I set the DVR to record 2 HD shows at the same time, it will Pull the stream from the second receiver and allow viewing of an SD live stream while recording the other two. Even more impressive is that you can record this third stream while recording the other 2 streams! This of course disables the other receiver which I DONT like, but I don't use the second receiver often.

2011-02-17, 09:33 AM	#159
Tikker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SaskTel Posts: 895	I think it's just getting used to it, to be honest The media manager guide was ridiculously fast to scroll thru, where mediaroom is much more like the bell guide ie the old MM guide, you could hit the guide, scroll down, and go thru all 999 channels in about 4 seconds now it takes about 1 second per page of channels, which to me is where it's kinda supposed to be coming from starchoice/shaw direct, the new "slow" guide, is still faster than that, so to me it feels nice and snappy but I see where the complaints are coming from. I don't agree, but I can see why they're generated

2011-02-17, 11:45 AM	#161
Dr.Dave Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 4,695	I think Tikker has the answer. It sounds like the previous MAX was blazing fast. I think part of the issue is Mediaroom generates the PIP as you scroll through the guide which obviously takes time. Here are a few tips for using the guide: - Type the channel number to go to a channel more than a few pages away. - Use the FF button to advance a day at a time. - You can customize the guide to remove channels you never watch to remove clutter. - Use left arrow and press OK on the channel number to see the channel in "list view".

2011-02-17, 01:03 PM	#162
Tikker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SaskTel Posts: 895	The Media Room guide is slower than Media Center, but as Dr Dave pointed out, it does a PIP preview that MCE will never do. I would love a hybrid of the 2, but I think I give a slight edge to the MediaRoom guide. much easier to avoid commercials with it. coming from MCE mediaroom is going to feel very intuitive, but some of the changes didn't make sense to me, especially the series recording that's my one real gripe, but now that I understand the difference, it's not really a huge deal, but it's another thing to get used to

2011-02-17, 03:55 PM	#164
dirtyharry2 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 24	I would be thrilled to disable PiP in the guide if it would make it more responsive. Note, I don't have a problem with all delays; a delay when changing channels is perfectly acceptable - how many people actually flip through channels nowadays rather than looking at the guide and going directly to a desired program? If I am wanting to check what is on next tuesday, again I have no problem with some seek/delay while the information is retrieved. However, if all I want to do is check what is on channels 300-400 at this very second, out of necessity I need to access 10 or 20 'pages' very quickly. To my mind, I am accessing a simple, text-based, information system, which is actually downloaded ahead of time and stored. The problem seems to be the PiP, in particular HD PiP. As it stands right now, I hate navigating. On occasion, it has frustrated me to the point of turning off the tv and doing something else.

2011-02-18, 09:59 AM	#165
Dr.Dave Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 4,695	@dirtyharry2, I think it's easier to type 300 into the guide than go through 10 or 20 pages.