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CBC/SRC DTV Transition Status (closed)

211K views 946 replies 125 participants last post by  stampeder 
#1 ·
I wonder what the situation is with CBC network transmissions. For example: the last thing I heard a couple of months ago in the case of Calgary was that it is next on the list for DTV. Maybe there is something in the works?? The question that I have is will there be a "flash cut" back to the original channel or a new temporary UHF assignment for example?
 
#57 ·
Revoking simsubs isn't a big stick for CBC because so much of their programming isn't U.S.-based.
And it's an especially peculiar situation in Windsor, where CBC relinquishes rights to shows like Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune because the station is so close to the U.S. border.
As a result, CBET has a schedule that, for part of the day, is unlike any other CBC station in southern Canada.
Revoking BDU carriage — now that would be a big stick. Wonder if the CRTC has the guts to do it.
 
#61 ·
Revoking simsubs isn't a big stick for CBC because so much of their programming isn't U.S.-based.
Agreed, though it might make the other networks think twice about following the CBC's lead.

And it's an especially peculiar situation in Windsor, where CBC relinquishes rights to shows like Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune because the station is so close to the U.S. border.
As a result, CBET has a schedule that, for part of the day, is unlike any other CBC station in southern Canada.
True, though my comments were more general.

Revoking BDU carriage — now that would be a big stick. Wonder if the CRTC has the guts to do it.
That it would. I doubt if the CRTC would cut them off September 1, 2011, but they may not let them wait until August 31, 2012. Only time will tell though.
 
#58 ·
hkaye: I'm not certain that the cost of a digital transmitter is vastly impacted by the type of ATSC transmission, whether it be a standard definition or HD resolution.
 
#62 ·
Letter to CBC/Radio-Canada

I've just e-mailed a polite letter to CBC/Radio-Canada pertaining to the lack of a digital transmitter for CBRFT Calgary and will keep you up to date if I receive a response from them.
I invite all of you -- concerned taxpayers and, by extension, CBC shareholders -- to do the same for whatever wrong you perceive in the CBC's DTV transition plan for your region.
 
#63 ·
I've just e-mailed a polite letter to CBC/Radio-Canada pertaining to the lack of a digital transmitter for CBRFT Calgary and will keep you up to date if I receive a response from them.
I invite all of you -- concerned taxpayers and, by extension, CBC shareholders -- to do the same for whatever wrong you perceive in the CBC's DTV transition plan for your region.
Make sure you also send a copy to your MP. The CBC can only do what they have money for and it is the federal government who gives them most of their money. Considering the Conservatives hate the CBC and would like nothing better than the CBC to die a slow and painful death, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one though.
 
#69 ·
I would think the FCC would be more concerned that CBEFT was still broadcasting on chaneel 54.
Correct. The CBC even says themselves in section 12 of their Q&A, "in non-mandatory markets located in the Canada-US coordination zone (i.e. within 350 km of the US border), broadcasters required to vacate UHF channels 52-69." Since Windsor is actually a mandatory market, CBEFT will definitely be required to shut down, since there are no plans to convert it to digital.
 
#67 ·
Thanks for answering my questions Roger1818. I didn't see where CBC said any of that.
It's not in that Press Release is it? Or ya goin by "common sense" which doesn't seem to exist up there.
 
#70 ·
Thanks for answering my questions Roger1818. I didn't see where CBC said any of that.
Regarding CBEFT, I said "They will likely just stop broadcasting," implying that it is what I think they will do (I have no proof).

Regarding channel 35. You highlighted the wrong line in your original post. CBET-PT on channel 9 is their post transitional allocation. The one you highlighted (CBET-DT) is their temporary allocation during the transition, so I got the information from you. ;)
 
#72 ·
#74 ·
I'm certain that London will retain it's CBC transmitter(s). You cannot serve London with a Toronto transmitter, so it would stand to reason that London retains it facilities.

However, as a cost cutting measure, it wouldn't surprise me if the CBC blends both English and French stations into one transmission, with one station as a sub-channel.
 
#75 ·
Perhaps it's covered somewhere else in the forum, but can somebody help outline what CBC would lose from pulling out their repeaters from mandatory markets completely? I'm not talking about originating stations, rather just the repeaters similar to what are in London and Kitchener.

It seems to me that they would lose the right to have mandatory carriage in these markets, but I don't see that as much of an issue, as no local cable provider is not going to pick up the CBC.
 
#78 ·
what CBC would lose from pulling out their repeaters from mandatory markets completely?
Officially they would loose two things. As you said, priority carriage on cable, but it is unlikely the cable companies would change their lineup unless they need to, as it would be a source of customer complaints.

They would also loose simultaneous substitution rights on American programs, but the CBC doesn't have nearly as much of that as the other networks, so even that isn't all that important to them.

The biggest reason for the CBC to stay on air is to serve the Canadian population, which is their mandate from the federal government. For this your MP is your biggest ally.
 
#80 ·
I think it's clear that CBC has given up the ghost on OTA transmission. There is probably some sort of posturing over FFC going on here. CTV/Rogers/Global have the incentive of FFC to perform their digital switch. For CBC its just money down the tubes.

Reading the CBC release, it looks like KW, London, Moncton, Victoria, Lethbridge and Saskatoon will be getting the shaft (would lose their analog CBC station next year, and no mention of requests to CRTC for extension). CBC OTA viewers in these cities should contact their MP's, or else obediently go out and get cable, like the CBC is hoping you will do.

Maybe the CBC is hoping the CRTC will force Shaw to pay for their digital OTA conversion as "tangible benefits" for the Canwest purchase. They can dream...
 
#82 ·
CBC OTA viewers in these cities should contact their MP's, or else obediently go out and get cable, like the CBC is hoping you will do.
Yeah. I agree. I emailed asking my MP to get in touch with someone and ask them to be up front with their plans on the repeaters (and of course, ask them not to drop London - it's the 10th largest city in Canada)
 
#81 ·
I wouldn't say KW has gotten the "shaft". The Toronto CBC (English) signal is currently the strongest of all the Toronto digital stations in KW. The French station is weaker, but I get it quite easily off my tower.

And again, while I suspect the CBC could mothball transmitters in mandatory areas like KW, we don't yet know for sure if this will be the case.
 
#86 ·
I wouldn't say KW has gotten the "shaft". The Toronto CBC (English) signal is currently the strongest of all the Toronto digital stations in KW. The French station is weaker, but I get it quite easily off my tower.
Maybe not KW, given it's close distance from Toronto... but it seems like cities like London have been given the "shaft" by the CBC.

Why should my tax dollars support the CBC, if I'm not benefitting like other Canadians??
 
#83 ·
Maybe the most effective weapon would be a "use-it-or-lose-it" directive. I seem to recall Mr. Bitove wanting to set up a Canadian OTA HD networka few years ago, but the incumbents were howling about it. Since openings seem likely to pop up with, CBC's allocated channels might be put up for grabs where they shut down.
 
#84 ·
When contacting your MP, remind them that "local tv matters", seems the broadcasters have forgotten about this.

I like the use it or lose it policy. Perhaps they'll allow the American networks to put a few transmitters in London. They seem to be able to put them up in the US. And have local news as well. I don't see why not, the facade of the CRTC protecting Canadian broadcaster hasn't worked well for the consumer.

Allow subchannels, I'm sure the ABC/CBS/Fox affliate would rebroadcast the CBC on one of their transmitters. Another subchannel could run whatever other Canadian content is/was made - maybe eTalk and reruns of the Littlest Hobo, the Beachcombers and the Red Green Show.
 
#89 ·
On the air by Aug. 31, 2011:
CBC: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
SRC: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City, Rimouski, Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke, Chicoutimi, Moncton

• On the air by Aug. 31, 2012:
CBC: Yellowknife, Regina, Winnipeg, Windsor, Saint-John/Fredericton, Charlottetown, Halifax, St. John’s
SRC: Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg


How can they say 2012? Doesn't the CRTC and /or minister have to allow that? That won't be fair to the others if CBC gets special treatment.
 
#94 ·
How can they say 2012? Doesn't the CRTC and /or minister have to allow that?
Yes. They said they have "filed a request to the CRTC to allow a temporary extension of analogue service in those markets not slated for transition until after the August 2011 deadline." As far as I can see, the CRTC can respond in one of three ways to this request:

  1. Grant the extension. This opens up a huge can of worms though.
  2. Deny the extension, but allow a direct feed to BDUs temporarily with some possible restrictions. This is the most likely response IMHO.
  3. Deny the extension and suspended the licenses until the transmitters are built (or the deadline is reached).

That won't be fair to the others if CBC gets special treatment.
They likely wouldn't get special treatment. I suspect all of the networks are wanting to do the same thing (I haven't seen PT applications in markets the CBC is applying for an extension in).

The big mistake the CRTC made is assuming the networks could manage the transition on their own. It has become obvious that they can't and the CRTC should have treated them like children and given them bite sized pieces to transition instead of setting an end date for everything to be done.
 
#90 ·
I didn't go thru the entire thread, so my point may have already been touched up...

How is it that SRC can arrange to have 9 stations operating in DT by 2011, but the CBC can only arrange 6. Look at that list carefully. Not one CBC station in DT east of Montreal. Talk about writing off the four Atlantic provinces.

I don't know what excuse the CBC is using for only having 6 DT stations in operation. If it's money related! I would suggest they get their 6 current DT stations up to full power now, shut down their equivalent analog signals in those markets. Use the money saved to focus on getting at least as many DT stations in full operation as SRC will by Sept. 2011.

Sometimes I wonder if Harper and the Conservatives aren't right about putting an end to this public broadcaster.
 
#91 ·
Blackburst: All SRC stations (and any other local French-language stations), regardless of size of market, are eligible for LPIF funds. English-language stations serving more than 1M subs cannot receive LPIF money.

Therefore, this disparity you've noticed between the SRC and CBC could be explained by money the stations receive.

And it could also come down to viewership: Perhaps more French-language viewers use OTA? I haven't looked at the numbers, but this could be another possibility....
 
#93 ·
And it could also come down to viewership: Perhaps more French-language viewers use OTA? I haven't looked at the numbers, but this could be another possibility....
This is very true. I don't have a link to the data, but I have read that Quebec has the highest OTA usage in Canada (I seem remember reading 17% are exclusively OTA). This is probably because there are fewer French cable channels than English, so the benefits of cable are lower.
 
#97 ·
Looking at the lists - it seems strange that the French OTA service will

eventually end in Calgary when it made it to Edmonton by Augist 31st 2012?

I thought that Calgary had been identified as a major market

area? :confused:

Surely in this case CBC/SRC is not complying with the rules.
 
#100 ·
Looking at the lists - it seems strange that the French OTA service will eventually end in Calgary when it made it to Edmonton by Augist 31st 2012?I thought that Calgary had been identified as a major market area? :confused:
This document only talks about originating stations. There is no mention of repeaters in mandatory markets. We can only assume that they will be shut down, but we really don't know if and when that will happen.

Surely in this case CBC/SRC is not complying with the rules.
Which rules are you talking about? The SRC will have the required one station per province in non Francophone areas. Are there rules about having repeaters in cities that don't have stations?
 
#99 ·
If I was in the governments place, I would force the CBC/SRC to use sub-channels.

If a CBC station was DT ready in a market, and a SRC equivalent was not, then the SRC feed should be placed on the x.2 subchannel. 480p 16x9

And the same would go if the SRC station was DT ready, but the CBC station was not. As in Quebec City and Moncton.

Also, increase the power output of DT stations to cover a larger area.
CBOT-DT in Ottawa is an example. I believe it's at 165kw on UHF 25. Get that up to 300kw, and a larger area will be covered in both Ontario & Quebec. Thus decreasing the need to convert all those re-transmitters.

All this would help bring the ATSC standard faster to more places in the country.

The technology is there. The political will, and CBC/SRC planning is not.
 
#101 ·
@j0dest3r

From CRTC Broadcasting Regulatory Policy CRTC 2010-485, issued July 6, 2010

34. Having reviewed the submission of parties and broadcasters’ plans, the Commission is of the view that the conversion of one or more trial market(s) several months before the conversion of the remaining markets would be beneficial. It also considers that Winnipeg would constitute an appropriate trial market given its size, its distance from other mandatory markets and the presence of all major English-language broadcasters in the market. The Commission is also of the view that the city of Québec would constitute an appropriate trial market given its size and the presence of all major French-language broadcasters. The Commission notes that most broadcasters in these markets have stated their intentions to implement digital transmitters by 2011 and that some broadcasters in the Québec market are already operating DTV transmitters on their post-transitional channels.
 
#102 ·
roger1818 - Isn't Calgary a major market in either of the official languages? It is a city of around 1.2 Million inhabitants - bigger than Ottawa (number 4 in Canada I understand). If francophones can't be served over the air in Calgary by SRC in their own language - there is obviously something wrong with the system!

Quote downbeat:-

As was mentioned in the CBC/Radio-Canada transition thread, they are only converting their originating stations. This means CBRFT is off the list, as it is a full-time rebroadcaster of CBXFT Edmonton. (And I'm pretty sure this doesn't comply with CRTC stipulations.)
 
#106 ·
roger1818 - Isn't Calgary a major market in either of the official languages? It is a city of around 1.2 Million inhabitants - bigger than Ottawa (number 4 in Canada I understand). If francophones can't be served over the air in Calgary by SRC in their own language - there is obviously something wrong with the system!
I don't deny that Calgary is a major market. I am just asking where it says that major cities must have an SRC transmitter? Ottawa/Gatineau has one (despite recently being passed by Calgary in population) because it is a fully bilingual city with a large francophone population.
 
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