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Antennas Direct OTA Antennas & Gear

361K views 890 replies 153 participants last post by  JJMoney 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
If you're already receiving HD then this is not going to be a cost-effective experiment. However if you're still interested, a good quality antenna would be a Blake or a Televes. The Televes is a bit cheaper.I picked up two Televes for $300. They have a local HDTV Info and reception section with a lot of knowledge in it. Good search function as well. If you're looking for a 6000 OTA module, I'll probably be selling one in the next couple weeks. The bloody things sell for almost as much on ebay as they are new. I think they might be getting hard to find new. On ebay you can expect to pay about $130-140 US. Jonic is selling them for BEV for about $310 Cdn. Which DirectTV box do you have. I believe most of them have a built in OTA tuner. If it's the Hughes, it does, and it seems to be a decent tuner.
 
#492 ·
DB8e at CEDIA

A prototype of the DB8e was exhibited the CEDIA show in Indianapolis last week. Our friends at Solid Signal were kind enough to feature it in a recent blog post at http://forums.solidsignal.com/content.php/834-CEDIA-Expo-Report-Antennas-Direct-DB8


Please note that this is a concept/prototype unit and that it has not been released for production nor has any schedule been established for actual production or sale. Best guess is sometime well after the first of the year if and when it happens. Final features are yet to be established.
 
#511 ·
A prototype of the DB8e was exhibited the CEDIA show in Indianapolis last week. Our friends at Solid Signal were kind enough to feature it in a recent blog post at http://forums.solidsignal.com/content.php/834-CEDIA-Expo-Report-Antennas-Direct-DB8


Please note that this is a concept/prototype unit and that it has not been released for production nor has any schedule been established for actual production or sale. Best guess is sometime well after the first of the year if and when it happens. Final features are yet to be established.
This is exciting news, i currently run a DB8 in the attic and it's working quite
well, but what i really like from the blog, besides a bit of extra gain, is that you
can point the sides in 2 different directions. I'll certainly be watching for this to
hopefully hit the stores sometime in the new year. Thanks ADTech :)
 
#497 ·
any specs on the db8e?
No, not yet. Figure on up to 2-3 dB gain over a DB4e depending on frequency. Around half the beamwidth, again dependent on frequency of interest.

Two DB4e antennas side by side plus a few more inches in width. It's big, really big.


estimated priced?
Two DB4e antennas plus the combiner and the mechanical hardware to mount them. Expensive. Marketing hasn't set a price since manufacturing costs are still in flux.

graph to show strength accross the frequencies?
Eventually. Take the DB4e data and extrapolate 2-3 dB more forward gain and you will be close.

ie. the db8 has trouble with uhf14 (the first channel on the uhf band)
I'm not aware of any such problem on the DB8 and we've sold thousands of them. I've hung quite a few of them in the air around St Louis' rural areas and our local channel 14 has never been a issue.
 
#498 ·
Question about that DB8e (I understand it isn't & may not be in production). In my case I am between two markets very close to 180 degrees out. I've always used two separate antennas (AD's of course) with two separate coax lines and separate tuners. I was thinking that the DB8e would allow me to spread all my tuners across one single coax (w preamp). But would the 180 degrees cause any issues for the signal? I ask this because I've heard that when stacking antennas, perfect alignment is important, and this would be a case of purposely poor alignment ( yes-no?).

Thanks,

Bobby
 
#499 ·
Bobby, Unmodified, the DB8e will have the same 180 degree problem, but had you thought of removing the reflector from your antenna (assuming it is a DB-x or C-x) to give it equal gain front and back? You will loose about 3dB of gain on the front, but will gain between 15 and 20 dB on the back side. This will allow you to have only one antenna. If you can live without that 3dB of gain (or can make up for it by using a bigger antenna or stacking your two antennas), this will save you from having to use separate coax lines and tuners. The only other potential problem with this scheme could be reflections causing multipath interference if you are in an area with tall buildings or mountains.

It is too bad no one makes a reflectorless bowtie antenna anymore (Wade-Delhi use to make one, the SL-4BT).
 
#500 ·
Bobby,

There's no clear cut answer to your question. As Roger already highlighted, there's no free lunch when it comes to situations such as yours. Best to experiment and see what might work out in your particular circumstance.


The reflectors of most of our panel antennas are affixed with aluminum rivets that can easily be drilled out. If necessary, standard #10 screws and nuts may be used for reassembly.

Experimentation, with results reported, is certainly encouraged for the adventurous. Certainly plenty of that type of folk around here.
 
#503 ·
as for uhf14, that's fox here from buffalo, i only get about 40% on my tuner for it, so i'm heading up there next weekend, i'll try to tweek it further west (currently pointing south towards the other buffalo stations) and see if that helps. although the other stations from grand island are i believe 17 and 32 off the top of my head and both of those are in the 80-90's, so i think it is something with 14.
 
#508 ·
currently pointing south towards the other buffalo stations
at 18.5 NM though, shouldn't i still be able to bring it in?
The DB8 (like all 8 bay antennas) is very directional. You will loose a significant amount of gain if you aren't pointed directly at the transmitter. If you need a wide beam-width, a 4-bay antenna would be a much better choice).
 
#504 ·
takeaim, I had a look at your TVFool report and RF 14 (29.1) has a NM of 18.5 dB. Looking at the other two stations from Grand Island, 43 (17.1) has a NM of 25.4 dB and 32 (23.1) has a NM of 33.0 dB, so RF 14 is by far the weakest of the 3 before it even hits your antenna. This shows that your results don't really prove anything about your antenna.

There is also RF 15 with a NM of -2.1 dB, but I assume you aren't receiving it.
 
#505 ·
Have any of you tried the Digi---Wave ANT-7288. I just installed one from Canada Computers, great deal, 49.99, and it works just as well as the CM 4228 HD for way less. Everything from Buffalo 100% except WBNF, and including ION at 100%. I do use an amp at the feed. Wish i could get WBBZ but even with a good YA-1713 outside, its' a rare pickup, but CHCH and CKVR are easy pickups on VHF. Can't get CHCJ or CKVP at all. I know my location helps especially for stations like ION which i've always had 24/7 even with a home-built attic antenna.
 
#507 ·
Have any of you tried the xxxxxxx.
Some problems with that antenna:
  1. That company has plagiarized this website and use of it's name is forbidden here.
  2. It is optimized for channels 21-69 as defined in United Kingdom, Ireland, Hong Kong, Macau, Falkland Islands and Southern Africa (470-862 MHz). It will work here, but not as well as one optimized for the North American channels 14-51 (470 to 700MHz).
  3. Unlike the CM-4228HD (which you mentioned), it is UHF only and won't do well for VHF.
  4. The folding design is gimmicky and may cause you problems.

The thing about DTV is you either get a perfect picture, or nothing, so a good picture isn't an indication of a good antenna.
 
#506 ·
thanks

at 18.5 NM though, shouldn't i still be able to bring it in? (talking in general of course as each situtation is a little different). i have an el-cheapo antenna from a buddy and i hooked that up in the bedroom with the antenna leaning against the wall aimed southwest and got that channel at 71% yesterday vs the db8 up top only getting it around 30% (although as i said it's aimed due south)
 
#509 ·
post 506 on probably belong in an area reception thread. None of this has anything to do with Antennas Direct.
 
#514 ·
I understand what you guys are saying regarding the losses. Right now there are 2
major markets and my DB8 is aimed somewhere in the middle to get both as best as
possible. I would think being able to aim a DB8e to each market or some slight tweak
of the direction may result in better reception from both markets, no ?
 
#515 ·
arrow201, It really depends on the angle between the transmitters (and if there are other transmitters you want between the two). If they are close to 90 degrees apart, this will work, but if they are significantly closer (the exact angle dependent on the beamwidth of the DB-4e, which is quite wide), it will be problematic, and you will be better off using a 4-bay antenna or possibly a C2. Similarly if they are significantly more than 90 degrees apart, you would be better off using a 4-bay (or 8 bay if close to 180 degrees), possibly with the reflector removed to balance the front and back gain.

Combining antennas with a narrower beamwidth will allow it to work with transmitters closer together. In any case, you will still have that 3dB of loss due to reflections in the combiner, so using an A/B switch or separate tuners may be a better option.
 
#516 ·
CPA-19

I bought the AD CPA-19 to use in suburban area, with a few moderate local channels (including VHF-HI) and a few weak, distant channels. The system includes over 100 ft of RG-6, and a 2-way splitter.

It easily overloaded and I had difficulty receiving any channels consistently. Furthermore, when I used the AD variable attenuator (0-20 dbs) after the splitter, it further weakened all channels, no matter the amount of attenuation.

The add says
High overload resistance for more consistent reception in urban and suburban areas
so Im not sure why its overloading, and why I couldnt attenuate it properly...

I tried the Kitztech and HDP 269 with no issues !
 
#530 ·
I bought the AD CPA-19 to use in suburban area, with a few moderate local channels (including VHF-HI) and a few weak, distant channels. ...

It easily overloaded and I had difficulty receiving any channels consistently. Furthermore, when I used the AD variable attenuator (0-20 dbs) after the splitter, it further weakened all channels, no matter the amount of attenuation.
If the pre-amp is overloading, putting the attenuator after the pre-amp won't help as the damage is already done (that will only help if the pre-amp is causing tuner to overload).

The add says
High overload resistance for more consistent reception in urban and suburban areas
The ad. can say anything, but without standardized measurements it is meaningless.

I tried the Kitztech and HDP 269 with no issues !
The attenuator in the Kitztech may be before the pre-amp, thus preventing it from overloading. This isn't necessarily the best thing to do as it will also attenuate the weak, distant signals before they are amplified. The HDP-269 is the best preamp for strong signals on the market, but at the cost of a higher NF and lower gain.

Any thought as to why this amplifier overloads so easily
Without knowing more about your location, it is hard to say for sure. Do you have strong FM stations that aren't being filtered out?
 
#517 ·
Question on 91xg assembly

Ok, starting to assemble 91XG now.. Questions.

1. The middle boom... seems that the holes on one end is spaced longer than the other from the end. The instructions dont mention this. I am guessing that since the front end of antenna has longer-spaced holes, that the middle boom should have the longer-spaced hole at the front of the antenna, correct?

2. Attaching the big U-shaped boom assembly, it seems you can just arbitrarily attach it to the main boom anyway on it. There are no markings. Looking at the picture on the instruction sheet, it seems the back mount-point looks to be between the 5th and 6th director (counting from the back). Is that right?

3. The mounting bracket itself to the U-shaped boom. Again, no place to put it...do I just roughly attach it to the middle section of U-shaped boom?

4. There is a rubber boot, but it seems there is only one opening. Am I supposed to cut a hole at the other end so I can thread my coaxial cable through it, which is attached to the bottom of the F-connector (btw, the photo shows the rubber boot & connector at the horizontal end of the black balun unit, which is wrong).
 
#518 ·
1. Yes. The director spacing increases towards the front of the boom.

2. Pick a spot where it fits. I've never counted the exact position, but there aren't many choices.

3. Find the center of gravity and put the clamp there.

4. The boot is for folks who install their own cable ends. Nip the tip, slide it onto the coax, and install the F-connector. If you don't install your own cable ends, toss it aside. The baluns were changed several years ago to a bottom exit configuration but the instructions weren't updated from what I can tell.
 
#519 ·
Ok, thanks for the answers.

Another comment... Geez, those directors were hard to snap into the boom since the plastic hooks were so stiff!

Also, looks like all those directors are electrically isolated (no connection) to the boom.

So, how does it work then? THe signals get bounced from director from front to the back and one of the back directors is contacted with the balun box somehow?
 
#521 ·
Also, looks like all those directors are electrically isolated (no connection) to the boom.

So, how does it work then? THe signals get bounced from director from front to the back and one of the back directors is contacted with the balun box somehow?
The directors don't actually receive the signal, but help "direct" or focus the signal onto the driven element (the second element from the back) kind of like lenses. The rear element is a reflector and reflects signals back to the driven element.

For more info on how Yagis (and other antennas) work, there is a good description (with pictures) at HDTV Primer.
 
#520 ·
Yeah, it works, just put it together. I've installed a few of them for friends and family besides my own. Use both hands to slightly open the plastic clip when installing them onto the boom, it goes a lot easier. Just make certain that they clip properly or else you'll be going back up there to put it back on.

If you don't understand how it works, it's just FM anyway. As long as it works, life is good.
 
#522 ·
Antennas Direct Antennas

I was looking at the AD site and I have to say that I thought I was seeing things!
Is this right, the new 4 bay DB4e has gone from $89.99 to $139.99???
The old 91XG from about $100 to $149.99???
I see that many people build some really good performing 4 bays and other antennas from designs like the Mclapp; but one could buy 2 or even 3 Channel Master 4221HD's and stack or arrange them in various fashions and legitimately beat out the DB4e for overall dBd gain. From everything I've heard, AD has had good customer service and stands behind their products, but why on earth have their prices gone up so drastically??? Does this development have anyone else here looking at other manufacturers for an antenna?
*** I've run through it again, and AD now shows their price including shipping, but doesn't show on the first checkout page the shipping price and the product price separately. I'd like to be able to see it. Though, from what I recall their past antenna prices being, it's about $50 now for shipping in the US.
 
#524 ·
I was looking at the AD site and I have to say that I thought I was seeing things!
Is this right, the new 4 bay DB4e has gone from $89.99 to $139.99???
The old 91XG from about $100 to $149.99???
I see that many people build some really good performing 4 bays and other antennas from designs like the Mclapp; but one could buy 2 or even 3 Channel Master 4221HD's and stack or arrange them in various fashions and legitimately beat out the DB4e for overall dBd gain. From everything I've heard, AD has had good customer service and stands behind their products, but why on earth have their prices gone up so drastically??? Does this development have anyone else here looking at other manufacturers for an antenna?
*** I've run through it again, and AD now shows their price including shipping, but doesn't show on the first checkout page the shipping price and the product price separately. I'd like to be able to see it. Though, from what I recall their past antenna prices being, it's about $50 now for shipping in the US.
Hope this is not breaking forum rules, but like threeflags says ...ie. the sponsor
here sells those items for the cheaper price you stated.
 
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