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QC - City of Montréal - OTA (CLOSED - Please see FINAL POST)

366K views 1K replies 173 participants last post by  stampeder 
#1 ·
QC - City of Montréal - OTA (CLOSED - Please see FINAL POST)

I Just Have New Hdtv, and I Don't Know How Can I Get Hd Channel Ota. i Am In Montreal. Please Anyone Can Help Me?
Thanks
 
#152 ·
Wow!! that was fast. Yes, NDG means Notre-Dame-de-Grâce :D
Thanks for the advice. I phoned Raybel but the CM 7777 are back-ordered. I need to find another source in Montreal if possible. Otherwise, I'll mail-order it from elsewhere in Canada.

I'm also considering putting up a second antenna and point it at 80 deg. for the Montreal locals. I'd need a small UHF/VHF antenna and a diplexor to combine the signal with my CM4228.

What would be a good choice for small antenna and a low-loss diplexor?
 
#153 ·
Combining 2 antennas is not easy because their reception patterns affect eachother, and not always nicely... ;) You won't need a diplexor, which is for combining antenna with satellite. A simple splitter used in reverse is the answer to combining 2 antennas.

You can look through the thread in the OTA Equipment Forum about splitters to get good info about them. Also there are several other DHCers who have combined 2 or more antennas and their posts can be helpful.

Would putting your CM4228 on a rotor be an option?
 
#154 ·
WETK and WPTZ

Hi,
I've been unable to get any of the new signals from Mt Mansfield until today. I'm using a CM 4248 (Yagi) pointed south out the window of my 3'd floor apartment near St-Joseph and St-Laurent. I installed a CM 7775 pre-amp and wham, WPTZ NBC 5.1 is coming through along with a weather sub channel 5.2 very well. I also am picking up a CBC channel 20.3 for the first time (I can get CBC and Radio-Canada 2.1 and 6.1 without an antenna) However I still cannot get WETK 33.1, PBS, which is what I really want. The recent reception reports from NDG suggests that people are receiving WETK and WPTZ at nearly equal strength. Since they are broadcasting from the same tower, I can't figure why I can't. I have a Sony KDXS955 with built-in ATSC but it does'nt give me signal strength. Does anyone know if WPTZ is broadcasting a stronger signal?
 
#156 ·
I have an idea

Would putting your CM4228 on a rotor be an option?
I really don't like the idea of a rotor. Not an option, I'd rather do without the Mtl locals if it comes to that.

About using a splitter in reverse, the ones I have are all rated 3.5dB (or more) insertion loss, that's a lot of attenuation... isn't it? Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the preamp?... I saw on the CM and Wineguard sites they have those 0.5dB insertion loss combiners. They're more expensive but I'm tempted to go with those instead... Would I be wasting my money? Or are the regular splitters good enough?

Many thanks for your help stampeder :D

I have an idea for the second antenna... What if I used a short (about 3 feet long or so) VHF/UHF antenna and put it on a very short mast behind the brick chimney? You see, Mt. Royal is towards the front the house and Mt. Mansfield is towards the right (on the other side of the chimney IOW). So the antenna would receive the waves from Mt. Royal but it would be shielded from Mt. Mansfield by the chimney. I have a flat roof BTW.



Does this have any chance of working ? Or did just have a brain fart?
 
#157 ·
The channel master 7777 seems to be a popular model, but I'm concerned that its high gain might be a problem with local signals.
If your antenna is pointed away from the locals you should be fine. If the locals and the U.S. stations are in a line then you might have high signal strength problems with the local stations. If trouble occurs my advice is to go to The Source and get a 6dB attenuator that you can put inline to see if it helps.
 
#158 ·
Should I try adding another amp to see if it will bring in WETK ?

Thank you Keeneye for your heads-up on getting signal strength from my Sony KX955. That's cool !

I purchased a fistfull of attenuators along with the CM 7775 preamp, but I did'nt need them. I am not having any problem with overload, and I was worried because I am practically in the shadow of the mountain and it's TV tower. That's why I didn't get the 7777 which is a VHF-UHF pre-amp. However, I am close enought that my Yagi is nearly at a right angle to the mountain when I'm pointing it south.

Should I try adding another amp to see if it will bring in WETK ?

John
 
#160 ·
Verdun Install In the Rain

Got myself soaking wet installing my new CM4228. I didn't have a compas so I'm not certain I'm pointing exactly at the right direction yet so I'll have to make some trial-error to find the best direction.

Before the CM4228 I had a silver sensor clone atop the mast at 40' above ground.

Here are my results:
CALL-RF Ch-Sub w/SS w/CM4228
CBFT-SRC 19 2-1 80% 0%
WCAX-CBS 53 3 1 85% 91%
WPTZ-NBC 14 5 1 66% 91%
WPTZ-NBC2 14 5 2 66% 91%
CBMT-CBC 20 6 1 82% 6%
WETK-PBS 32 33 1 71% 91%
WFFF-FOX 43 44 1 85% 91%
WCFE-PBS 38 57 1 64% 74%
WVNY-ABC 13 22 1 0% 4%

Unfortunately the CM4228 has much better rejection in the back so I can't get CBC and SRC anymore! Furtherless it didn't help me get WVNY.

Now I just hope testing other directions will yield better results!
 
#161 ·
SpaceHog, you are picking up the Montreal stations on one of the Channel Master 4228's side lobes to the east of you - it is overloading on the local CBC/SRC stations. Everyone should understand how powerful the CM4228 is. This might be hard to believe but you need to aim the antenna to be strong on locals while still very good on Vermont/New York stations. You have some work to do with aiming, and this is when a rotor is great. With a preamp you could turn the antenna to get the locals acceptably and then see how the U.S. stations are. If you prefer the U.S. stations, you could peak the antennna for them and then adjust it until you get the locals.

Nobody said it would be easy... ;) Some day when someone gives an exact compass bearing that gives the U.S. and local channels we can post it here and let people adjust for their own success.
 
#162 ·
I checked yesterday and it's SRC! But I cannot find from where it would be broadcast... Let's assume it's comming from the back would putting aluminum foil on the back of my CM4221 would help? I will try it this week-end see if it has any effect on anything.
according to w9wi.com, the only SRC station on ch. 44 is in Peterborough:

Peterborough, ON CBLFT-12 111.0 267.6 ZdH 44° 7'11"N 78° 8'12"W C-OP CBLFT [25 SRC]
tvl
 
#163 ·
SpaceHog, you are picking up the Montreal stations on one of the Channel Master 4228's side lobes to the east of you - it is overloading on the local CBC/SRC stations.
So basically I should point the antenna in such a way that the Montreal stations fall in the weakest point of the antenna while still pointing south (I guess it should be more towards the east then) and add a preamp to compensate for the loss of signal induced by not pointing directly at the US stations.

Am I reading you right?
Do you think the CM7778 is sufficient for that task?
 
#164 ·
I should point the antenna in such a way that the Montreal stations fall in the weakest point of the antenna
Here is a diagram of the CM4228's beam pattern available from the HDTV Primer site. On your antenna the main lobe is the one aimed at Burlington and the side/back lobes are what the locals are coming in through. In Verdun if the locals are behind your antenna you will have trouble. With some turning of your antenna back and forth you might be able to get a satisfactory level from all stations. If not, you might need to sell your CM4228 and go with a much more directional and side/back-rejecting Yagi like a Winegard PR9032, Wade-Delhi CYD-1470 or CM4248.

 
#166 ·
Yeah I really want that ABC-HD bad too...

The wind was so strong I almost got stranded on the roof today while installing my Spartan 3 preamp (equivalent to the 7778) on my CM4228 antenna: the ladder nearly got pushed off the edge of the roof by the wind... it was holding by a hair when I caught it, thank God.

I came down, hooked up everything inside and checked for the signal strength... Disappointing... NBC, CBS and PBS are the same as before (although well strong enough already - around 85%). Fox (43) however is much stronger. Went from 60-65% to about 80% but ABC is still 60-65% and with an unacceptable amount of dropouts and pixellation. IOW, still unwatchable :mad:

This mast preamp is supposed to provide 16dB but I'm beginning to suspect it has 0 gain in the VHF range. Turns out I paid $100 for only one extra channel. I wanted a 7777 but it's back-ordered everywhere. Guess that serves me right for being impatient.

Why oh why did ABC have to broadcast digital on channel 13?? I wish they did it the other way around: 13 on analog and 22 on digital :rolleyes:
 
#167 ·
CM7778 doesn't deliver as hoped :(

I installed the CM7778 last night and was a bit disapointed that the reception of WVNY-DT is just the same as without the amp (4%-8%) while it has improved that of SRC (50%) which is now strong enough to lock in but not enough to get CBC (25%... aren't they emmiting from the same tower :confused: )

All the other channels ar ein the low to mid 90's so I know the amp is doing its job. I guess it's only a matter of finding the right direction to aim the antenna.

Anyone else in Verdun with similar issues?
 
#168 ·
I installed the CM7778 last night and was a bit disapointed that the reception of WVNY-DT is just the same as without the amp (4%-8%) while it has improved that of SRC (50%) which is now strong enough to lock in but not enough to get CBC (25%... aren't they emmiting from the same tower :confused: )
Both CBFT-DT and CBMT-DT are broadcasting from the same temporary transmission site atop Maison Radio Canada.

from w9wi.com:

Montreal, QC CBFT-DT(1) [19] 16.60 111.4 dH 45°31' 5"N 73°33' 4"W VU-TO CBCF
Montreal, QC CBMT-DT(1) [20] 5.50 103.7 dH 45°31' 5"N 73°33' 4"W C-TO CBCE

(TO means temporary operating authority. the real authorization os for the CBC Mount Royal Tower)

SRC is broadcasting at three times the power of the CBC, which is about a 4 or 5 dB difference. Also the CBC is about 8m lower, but that shouldn't make too much of a difference. (although I'm not sure if that's right. You'd think for a temporary installation on adjacent channels, they would share the same antenna.)

TVl
 
#171 ·
Peut-être pour les villes dans le nord, mais pas à Montréal. C'est ici qu'il y a le plus haut nombre de domiciles "over-the-air" (20%). Ils sont peut-être "cheap" mais ils ne sont pas assez caves pour perdre un cinquième de leur auditoire...

Stampeder, I tried I preamp but it just makes things worse.
 
#174 ·
Which indoor antenna - near Atwater?

I am living at Atwater, and the building of my appartment is surrounding by high huildings. I bought one HDTV tuner card for my PC. Which indoor antenna shall I choose to get HDTV signals? Coz I don't want to set up an outdoor antenna at the roof.

I saw some from $49-69 at Futureshop. Do they work? Thanks for helping.
 
#175 ·
I've had good results on UHF with the 30$ TA-4 antenna available from Addison. I'm pretty sure its double-loop with reflector UHF antenna design is superior to the plain loops normally available from other brands.

I easilly get most digital stations available, but WFFF-DT and WVNY-DT. I'm using it indoors, standing in a window frame facing south.
 
#182 ·
St. Michel (central Montreal)



The TA-4 is an indoor antenna (according to the Addison website)...I was thinking of picking this up after reading Keeneye's comments/results (no idea where I can pick up a Zenith SS, or Winegard SS in a real store).

The only thing is that I can only point the antenna out my window westward...do you guys think it's even worth trying?

Right now with no antenna I can only get really bad analog reception for:

10 - CFTM (TVA)
12 - CFCF (CTV)
17 - CIVM (Télé-Québec)

I live in a residential area in central (St. Michel)...The only channels I would really like to catch are CBC (for HD hockey), and Global HD (US HD stuff would be a bonus)...I'm a total newbie to OTA stuff...I hope I'm making sense :)
 
#176 ·
Indoor antennas probably won't be very good for the U.S. stations but if you have good height and a direct view south you will get some results. I always recommend the Zenith Silver Sensor (or clones) for indoor viewing. Also I know several other DHCers who used bigger antennas indoors that usually go outdoors, like what Keeneye did.

Click on the links in this post for more antenna info:
 
#177 ·
You should be able to get Fox OK once they raise their antenna and go full power in the spring. They are currently only at 18kw instead of 47kw. As for ABC, keep letting them (WVNY) know you can receive every station except theirs, so that they can finally wake up and realize they have to change to a UHF channel if they ever want their signal to be received in North America's 15th largest city!
 
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