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Area 51 for Antenna Modelers & Builders (See Post #1)

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#1 · (Edited)
This thread has been created strictly for Antenna Modelers and Builders who like to live not just on the leading edge but on the bleeding edge of antenna research and development.

Area 51 is for posting and discussion of any computer model of any experimental antenna by Antenna Modelers and Builders

Area 51 is not for casual builders or newcomers to ask questions or look for useable home antennas. Participants here are expected to fairly well "know their stuff".

If an antenna design is shown to be worthwhile for general public consumption we will move it out of Area 51 into the main Antenna Research & Development Forum.

Just remember what the ancient map makers wrote when they had no further info to illustrate: "Beyond here be dragons!"
 
#132 ·
Is this a valid design, please check(this is at 75 ohms).
GW 1 3 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 2 8 0 2.29 6 0 6.5 6 0.04
GW 3 1 0 2 6.29 0 2.29 6 0.04
GW 4 2 0 2 6.29 0 2 6.71 0.04
GW 5 1 0 2 6.71 0 2.29 7 0.04
GW 6 23 0 2.29 7 0 11.71 7 0.04
GW 7 1 0 11.71 7 0 12 6.71 0.04
GW 8 2 0 12 6.71 0 12 6.29 0.04
GW 9 1 0 12 6.29 0 11.71 6 0.04
GW 10 8 0 11.71 6 0 7.5 6 0.04
GW 11 8 0 -2.29 6 0 -6.5 6 0.04
GW 12 30 -3.9 -13.75 -9 -3.9 -.25 -9 0.125
GW 13 1 0 -2 6.29 0 -2.29 6 0.04
GW 14 2 0 -2 6.29 0 -2 6.71 0.04
GW 15 1 0 -2 6.71 0 -2.29 7 0.04
GW 16 23 0 -2.29 7 0 -11.71 7 0.04
GW 17 1 0 -11.71 7 0 -12 6.71 0.04
GW 18 2 0 -12 6.71 0 -12 6.29 0.04
GW 19 1 0 -12 6.29 0 -11.71 6 0.04
GW 20 8 0 -11.71 6 0 -7.5 6 0.04
GW 21 30 -3.9 -13.75 -4 -3.9 -0.25 -4 0.125
GW 22 30 0 -7.5 6 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.04
GW 23 30 0 -6.5 6 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 24 30 0 -6.5 -6 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 25 30 0.1 0.5 0 0 7.5 6 0.04
GW 26 30 -.1 -0.5 0 0 6.5 6 0.04
GW 27 30 0 -7.5 -6 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.04
GW 28 30 0 6.5 -6 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.04
GW 29 30 0 7.5 -6 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 31 8 0 11.71 -6 0 7.5 -6 0.04
GW 32 8 0 2.29 -6 0 6.5 -6 0.04
GW 33 1 0 2 -6.29 0 2.29 -6 0.04
GW 34 2 0 2 -6.29 0 2 -6.71 0.04
GW 35 1 0 2 -6.71 0 2.29 -7 0.04
GW 36 23 0 2.29 -7 0 11.71 -7 0.04
GW 37 1 0 11.71 -7 0 12 -6.71 0.04
GW 38 2 0 12 -6.71 0 12 -6.29 0.04
GW 39 1 0 12 -6.29 0 11.71 -6 0.04
GW 40 8 0 -2.29 -6 0 -6.5 -6 0.04
GW 41 1 0 -2 -6.29 0 -2.29 -6 0.04
GW 42 2 0 -2 -6.29 0 -2 -6.71 0.04
GW 43 1 0 -2 -6.71 0 -2.29 -7 0.04
GW 44 23 0 -2.29 -7 0 -11.71 -7 0.04
GW 45 1 0 -11.71 -7 0 -12 -6.71 0.04
GW 46 2 0 -12 -6.71 0 -12 -6.29 0.04
GW 47 1 0 -12 -6.29 0 -11.71 -6 0.04
GW 48 8 0 -11.71 -6 0 -7.5 -6 0.04
GW 49 30 -3.9 -13.75 9 -3.9 -0.25 9 0.125
GW 50 30 -3.9 -13.75 4 -3.9 -0.25 4 0.125
GW 51 30 -3.9 0.25 9 -3.9 13.75 9 0.125
GW 52 30 -3.9 0.25 4 -3.9 13.73 4 0.125
GW 53 30 -3.9 0.25 -4 -3.9 13.75 -4 0.125
GW 54 30 -3.9 0.25 -9 -3.9 13.75 -9 0.125
GS 0 0 0.0254
GE 0
 
#133 ·
Is this a valid design, please check(this is at 75 ohms).
Yes, its a valid design. But SWR is lower at 300 ohms, and you needed more cards (and AGT adjusted) like this :

CE
GW 1 3 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.1 0.5 0 0.05721178
GW 2 8 0 2.29 6 0 6.5 6 0.04
GW 3 1 0 2 6.29 0 2.29 6 0.04
GW 4 2 0 2 6.29 0 2 6.71 0.04
GW 5 1 0 2 6.71 0 2.29 7 0.04
GW 6 23 0 2.29 7 0 11.71 7 0.04
GW 7 1 0 11.71 7 0 12 6.71 0.04
GW 8 2 0 12 6.71 0 12 6.29 0.04
GW 9 1 0 12 6.29 0 11.71 6 0.04
GW 10 8 0 11.71 6 0 7.5 6 0.04
GW 11 8 0 -2.29 6 0 -6.5 6 0.04
GW 12 30 -3.9 -13.75 -9 -3.9 -0.25 -9 0.125
GW 13 1 0 -2 6.29 0 -2.29 6 0.04
GW 14 2 0 -2 6.29 0 -2 6.71 0.04
GW 15 1 0 -2 6.71 0 -2.29 7 0.04
GW 16 23 0 -2.29 7 0 -11.71 7 0.04
GW 17 1 0 -11.71 7 0 -12 6.71 0.04
GW 18 2 0 -12 6.71 0 -12 6.29 0.04
GW 19 1 0 -12 6.29 0 -11.71 6 0.04
GW 20 8 0 -11.71 6 0 -7.5 6 0.04
GW 21 30 -3.9 -13.75 -4 -3.9 -0.25 -4 0.125
GW 22 30 0 -7.5 6 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.04
GW 23 30 0 -6.5 6 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 24 30 0 -6.5 -6 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 25 30 0.1 0.5 0 0 7.5 6 0.04
GW 26 30 -0.1 -0.5 0 0 6.5 6 0.04
GW 27 30 0 -7.5 -6 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.04
GW 28 30 0 6.5 -6 -0.1 -0.5 0 0.04
GW 29 30 0 7.5 -6 0.1 0.5 0 0.04
GW 31 8 0 11.71 -6 0 7.5 -6 0.04
GW 32 8 0 2.29 -6 0 6.5 -6 0.04
GW 33 1 0 2 -6.29 0 2.29 -6 0.04
GW 34 2 0 2 -6.29 0 2 -6.71 0.04
GW 35 1 0 2 -6.71 0 2.29 -7 0.04
GW 36 23 0 2.29 -7 0 11.71 -7 0.04
GW 37 1 0 11.71 -7 0 12 -6.71 0.04
GW 38 2 0 12 -6.71 0 12 -6.29 0.04
GW 39 1 0 12 -6.29 0 11.71 -6 0.04
GW 40 8 0 -2.29 -6 0 -6.5 -6 0.04
GW 41 1 0 -2 -6.29 0 -2.29 -6 0.04
GW 42 2 0 -2 -6.29 0 -2 -6.71 0.04
GW 43 1 0 -2 -6.71 0 -2.29 -7 0.04
GW 44 23 0 -2.29 -7 0 -11.71 -7 0.04
GW 45 1 0 -11.71 -7 0 -12 -6.71 0.04
GW 46 2 0 -12 -6.71 0 -12 -6.29 0.04
GW 47 1 0 -12 -6.29 0 -11.71 -6 0.04
GW 48 8 0 -11.71 -6 0 -7.5 -6 0.04
GW 49 30 -3.9 -13.75 9 -3.9 -0.25 9 0.125
GW 50 30 -3.9 -13.75 4 -3.9 -0.25 4 0.125
GW 51 30 -3.9 0.25 9 -3.9 13.75 9 0.125
GW 52 30 -3.9 0.25 4 -3.9 13.73 4 0.125
GW 53 30 -3.9 0.25 -4 -3.9 13.75 -4 0.125
GW 54 30 -3.9 0.25 -9 -3.9 13.75 -9 0.125
GS 0 0 0.0254 ' All in in.
GE 0
EK
LD 5 0 0 0 2.49e7 0
EX 0 1 2 0 1 0
GN -1
FR 0 1 0 0 470 0
RP 0 31 121 1001 0 0 6 3 10000 0
EN



Picture:
 
#136 ·
wbhenny

The x136
In the henny forums some one was looking for a wide band henny .

So here I put before the modelers a wideband henny , I have had it up to 9db in 4nec2.

The new design uses 2 stubs that help with the scr.

Yes there are few more reflectors then i want but oh well ,I'm still working on it for higher gain.

Code:
CE
SY w1seg=11, w1x1=0, w1y1=2.5, w1z1=5, w1rad=0.081011
GW	1	w1seg	w1x1	-w1y1	w1z1	w1x1	w1y1	w1z1	w1rad
SY w2z2=0.75
GW	2	w1seg	w1x1	-w1y1	w1z1	w1x1	-w1y1	-w2z2	w1rad
SY w3rad=0.032042
GW	3	w1seg	w1x1	-w1y1	-w2z2	w1x1	w1y1	-w2z2	w3rad
GW	4	w1seg	w1x1	w1y1	-w2z2	w1x1	w1y1	w1z1	w1rad
SY w5seg=9
GW	5	w5seg	w1x1	-w1y1	-w2z2	w1x1	-w1y1	-w1z1	w1rad
GW	6	w1seg	w1x1	-w1y1	-w1z1	w1x1	w1y1	-w1z1	w1rad
GW	7	w5seg	w1x1	w1y1	-w1z1	w1x1	w1y1	-w2z2	w1rad
SY w8seg=3, w8y2=4.25
GW	10	w8seg	w1x1	w1y1	-w1z1	w1x1	w8y2	-w1z1	w1rad
GW	11	w8seg	w1x1	-w1y1	-w1z1	w1x1	-w8y2	-w1z1	w1rad
SY w10seg=23, w10x1=8, w10y1=6, w10z1=0.5, w10rad=0.16243
GW	12	w10seg	-w10x1	-w10y1	-w10z1	-w10x1	w1z1	-w10z1	w10rad
SY w11y2=5.5
GW	14	w10seg	-w10x1	-w10y1	-w1y1	-w10x1	w11y2	-w1y1	w10rad
SY w12seg=15, w12y1=4, w12y2=3
GW	15	w12seg	-w10x1	-w12y1	w1y1	-w10x1	w12y2	w1y1	w10rad
SY w13seg=25, w13x1=6.5
GW	16	w13seg	-w13x1	-w13x1	-w10z1	-w13x1	w11y2	-w10z1	w10rad
SY w14z1=1
GW	17	w13seg	-w10x1	-w13x1	w14z1	-w10x1	w11y2	w14z1	w10rad
SY w15seg=31, w15y1=7.5
GW	18	w15seg	-w13x1	-w15y1	w14z1	-w13x1	w15y1	w14z1	w10rad
SY w16x1=4.75
GW	19	w13seg	-w16x1	-w13x1	-w10z1	-w16x1	w11y2	-w10z1	w10rad
GW	20	w13seg	-w16x1	-w10y1	w14z1	-w16x1	w10y1	w14z1	w10rad
GW	21	w15seg	-w13x1	-w15y1	w1y1	-w13x1	w15y1	w1y1	w10rad
GW	22	w13seg	-w16x1	-w13x1	w1y1	-w16x1	w11y2	w1y1	w10rad
GW	23	w15seg	-w13x1	-w15y1	-w1y1	-w13x1	w15y1	-w1y1	w10rad
SY w21y1=5.75, w21y2=6.25
GW	24	w13seg	-w16x1	-w21y1	-w1y1	-w16x1	w21y2	-w1y1	w10rad
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
EX	0	3	6	0	1.414	0
GN	-1
SY Freq=470
FR	0	1	0	0	Freq
 
#137 · (Edited by Moderator)
Request For Comments: Is X-032 ready for public use?

I just have to add my in put. For the newcomer. I would have him build X-032 (area 51). I just came from a friends and that is what we made in about 1hr. One needs a spine that is over 30". We used a 4'by 1/2" square stick and 1/4" dowel and 7' of 14 gauge steel wire. starting 1" down from the top of the square stick put in a nail for the top of the upper diamond. From there down 4 7/32" drilled a hole for the first spreader( 8 7/16" of 1/4 dowel). Then 7 13/32" drill 1/4" hole for the next spreader ( 6 3/8" of 1/4 dowel ). Now down 2 19/32 a 1/4" hole for the feed point spreader (2" of 1/4" dowel note that there needs to be two screws in it to attach the 75 to 300 balun) you are half way just add two more spreaders and to mirror the top two spreads and add the wire in the diamand shapes. This with a reflector will give you a 11dBi antenna.
 
#139 ·
Yeah, the X-032 does look like a very simple to build antenna with just one piece of wire. It has a very wide beam pattern (similar to the C2 and wifi bi-quad/double bi-quad), which makes it easy to aim. With a mesh reflector, its gain is from 11 to 13 dbi. It would be a good suburban uhf antenna, as its use in Europe shows. (but it is different than the Faccaro P-54) I think it should be moved out of the experimental area and into the regular thread, if some easy directions are posted with it. (I find it difficult to visualize the above directions Xauto, heh. Maybe some construction pictures to go with each step ?)
 
#141 ·
Declassifying X-032

Build instructions for the driven element of X-032.

If your rabbit ears do not work, try this build.

Materials:
1 1/8" x 1 1/8" x 3' wooden post.
1/2" wooden dowel, 31" worth (I suggest going with 3 feet).
Two nails.
Two screws.
7' of 14 gauge copper wire (I used 2 pieces, both 3 1/2' in length. Joints were under the nails).

Instructions:
1) Start by marking the post at 5 7/32", 12 5/8", 17 3/4" and 25 5/32".
2) Drill 1/2" holes at these locations in the center of the post.
3) Rotate the post 90 degrees.
4) Place your nail on this side at 1" and 29 3/8" (Do not drive all the way in).
5) Place two screws at 15 3/16".
6) From the 1/2" dowel, cut two pieces 8 7/16" in length, as well as two pieces 6 3/8". (These will be used as spreaders)
7) On all four dowels, cut a notch with a saw into the end of each dowel for the wire to set into.
8) Install the 8 7/16" length dowels into the holes that you made at 5 7/32" and 25 5/32". Then, install the 6 3/8" dowels into the two remaining holes.
9) Install the 14 gauge wire onto the frame as shown in the provided picture. (Note that at crossing points, one wire is on one side of the post, and one wire is on the other)



Edit: 1/2" pvc (spine) and 1/4" (spreaders) driveway markers would make better frame materials, but this mornings dumpster dive did not yield this.
 
#142 ·
Questions about X-032 and X-034

Xauto, that's a great photo for explaining how to build the frame and loom the wire. :) The over-under for separation is clever.

300ohm and firimari: I'm wondering if X-034 supercedes X-032 or would it be a variant?

All: is there any point to a double bay X-032 or X-034?
 
#143 ·
300ohm and firimari: I'm wondering if X-034 supercedes X-032 or would it be a variant?
The X-034 just has a simple 2X4 mesh reflector rather than the rods in the X-032.

A double bay version hasnt been done, but I believe that would narrow the very nice round front bubble pattern on it, one of its main advantages for suburban use. Its gain and pattern is very similar to a C2, but a heck of a lot easier for the home builder to make. A double bay mesh version should have from 15 to 15.5 dbi raw gain, which is still less than any DBGH.

The bi-quad wifi antenna, similar looking, is used in a lot of configurations as a parabola driver. Ive got mine finished, but still need to put a cable on it. (I hate to scrap this little wifi antenna I have, heh)

Xauto, your directions make a lot more sense to me now, heh.
 
#145 ·
Heres a picture of my build of post #97. I havent got the female SMA connector yet, so I havent tried it out. I am pretty proud of it because I think Ive built it to a .25mm tolerance by using a 3 inch lighted magnifying glass, heh.



I basically followed the build plans from here : http://wireless.ictp.it/handbook/download.html

except my vices were either too large or too small, so I used a pair of smooth, no toothed pliers to make the bends.
 
#148 ·
Basically, after I remembered how this house was built way way back, with a foil vapor barrier and foil back insulation, things started to make a little more sense about what was going on, heh.
Ive since moved the wireless fios router 50 ft to the other side of the house using cat 6 and RG-6 Quad Shield, have it more centrally located, and now have a 200 ft LOS to the garage thru a window. I get the max 54 Mbps all through the house and garage. With wifi, its certainly location, location, location, heh.
 
#149 ·
Any more opinions on the state of X-032 (Post #137)?
Judging by Escape Velocity's thread on another site, which deals with local/suburban type antennas, those types seem to be a popular issue with many many people.
I feel a lot of browsers come here looking for the extreme performance, which is great, but there probably should be some simple middle of the road stuff too. I think the X-032 and its variants can fill that need. (Certainly my uhf LPDA model cant. That thing was a real bear to build a copper copy of, heh)
 
#150 · (Edited)
X-150 a Fracarro P54 clone for channels 14-51

I've been doing some modelling with EZNEC (haven't figured out 4Nec2 yet) abd have come up with a very good performing version of the X-034 or Fracarro P54 type. According to my modelling this version has better SWR at the band edges and doesn't suffer much high end degredation of patterns that my modelling shows for the X-034.

SWR is 1.83 at 470 and is generally very close to 1.5 from 488 to 698 (chan 17-51) when referenced to 300 ohms..ie the user just hooks up a typical 300 to 75 ohm balun.

Forgive me for being unable to figure out how to copy files etc into here, but I'll desribe the antenn as it is simple and we have the picture of Xauto's X-032
to refer to as well as pictures of the P54.

The antenna is 4 diamonds just like the others and where the top and bottom elements cross the 2 center ones, the wires separate by 1/2" so that they don't touch (presumably like the other antennas of this type).

Unlike the others, the height of each of the 4 diamonds in the vertical plane is 8". However, the width in the horizontal plane of the center two loops is 10" and the upper two 5.6".

Distance across the center feed point is 2" (That seemed to work best and isn't too large for any balun). Wire diameter is .08" ie ~12 gauge.

The center two loops look like widened diamonds while the upper two look like compressed diamonds. I get a somewhat more broadbanded SWR that way than I did by keeping all diamonds square with the upper diamonds smaller like the P54.I also get better performance with the upper diamonds smaller then with them larger (X-034).

Currently I have found best performance with the antenna (call it X-150 per protocal here) 4.5" in front of a reflector. The modelled reflector consists of 1/4" wires spaces 1" apart in the vertical plane and 40" tall by 24" horizontal.
I haven't modelled it infront of mesh yet due to lack of segments available with my old EZNEC3, but simpler antennas don't change drastically when in front of 1" x 2" x .08" diam. mesh vs the 1/4" diam. reflector in my modelling.

Note also that my modelling shows that the reflector in general aids impedance when matched to 300 ohms for this antenna-type.

My modelling of this antenna-type has shown that the problems are getting good SWR at 470 while not having the antenna patterns fall apart from 675 to 700. ...ie broadbanding both the SWR and antenna radiation responses.

SWR of the X-150 starts to go above 2.0 from 463 Mhz and lower, but remains 1.5 or lower well above 900 Mhz. However, the EL plane patterns start to fall apart above 720 Mhz since shoulders start to creep up to -10 dB and as frequency increases these result in a split beam. On less broadbanded models, the EL patterns can degrade like this starting at about 675 Mhz.

I trust that one of you guys experienced with 4nec2 can model the X-150 and have a look. Please PM me if you don't understand my description of the dimensions.

... neilkaz ...
 
#152 ·
I wish it was this simple here, but I can't even get 4nec2 to work on this computer, it gives me an error message when it tried to input example 1 when I start it up.

I do hope one of you can model this antenna and don't suspect that it is difficult to change an existing 4nec2 model.

My appologies, no matter what I do I cannot copy a picture of this in here from EZNEC or any plots.

thx .. neilkaz ..
 
#154 ·
but I can't even get 4nec2 to work on this computer, it gives me an error message when it tried to input example 1 when I start it up.
Sounds like it could be corrupt files. Can you open up any other models by File > Open In-/output-file > C:\4nec2\models ?


If not, I would uninstall and try downloading it again.
 
#155 ·
nielkaz: It looks like your X150 design is about the same as X032 up to Ch.40 then X150 is better. This is my code for your D. E. I'm not very good at 4nec2. Sorry.
CE Double Twin Diamond
GW 1 3 0 -1 0 0 1 0 0.041
GW 2 6 0 -1 0 0 -5 4 0.041
GW 3 6 0 -5 4 -0.25 0 9.25 0.041
GW 4 6 -0.25 0 9.25 0 2.8 12 0.041
GW 5 6 0 2.8 12 0 0 16 0.041
GW 6 6 0 0 16 0 -2.8 12 0.041
GW 7 6 0 -2.8 12 0.25 0 9.25 0.041
GW 8 6 0.25 0 9.25 0 5 4 0.041
GW 9 6 0 5 4 0 1 0 0.041
GW 10 6 0 1 0 0 5 -4 0.041
GW 11 6 0 5 -4 -0.25 0 -9.25 0.041
GW 12 6 -0.25 0 -9.25 0 -2.8 -12 0.041
GW 13 6 0 -2.8 -12 0 0 -16 0.041
GW 14 6 0 0 -16 0 2.8 -12 0.041
GW 15 6 0 2.8 -12 0.25 0 -9.25 0.041
GW 16 6 0.25 0 -9.25 0 -5 -4 0.041
GW 17 6 0 -5 -4 0 -1 0 0.041
GS 0 0 0.0254
GE 0
EK
LD 5 0 0 0 5.8e7 0
EX 0 1 2 0 1 0
GN -1
FR 0 1 0 0 470 40
XQ
EN
 
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