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Sony announces Playstation Now

8K views 47 replies 9 participants last post by  brownstar 
#1 ·
Sony has finally announced their official plans for the purchased Gaikai streaming service. They demoed PS3 games such as The Last Of Us at CES and GoW. To start the PS3 and PS4 will be able to stream PS3 games via the service, followed by Vita, then other non Sony devices such as Android phones. They unveiled that some or all 2014 Bravia TV's will be able to use Playstation Now so technically you'll only need a Bravia TV and a PS3 controller to play legacy games on the big screen. I read somewhere they have 2 pricing plans in mind, a per game price and a subscription which gives access to all games. Lastly, the most surprising news is that the Playstation Now service is going into closed beta by the end of January with a target of launching this summer.


http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/7/5284730/playstation-now-hands-on
 
#6 ·
I'm really curious as to how much bandwidth will be used by this service.
Sony has said as little as a 5MB connection is enough.
I understand you are talking about 5Mbps, correct?

High definition means different things to different people.
Consider iTunes. They are streaming 1080p movies at a rate of about 2GB/hour.
They keep up with the H.264 codec improvements and switched
to High Profile around the time iPhone 4 was released.

That means about 4.55Mbps.
Having a 200GB/month limit means about 6GB/day or 3 hours/day of gaming.

The closest analogy to a game stream would be an animation movie: Cars, Antz, Shrek, etc.
Those are known to require quite a bit less bitrate to achieve the same
PSNR (considered by most as the closest quantitative measure of quality).

But the biggest savings come from color space reduction.
Unlike real life movies, there is no reference color for any of the images you see.
Hence, cutting corners is not noticeable...

And unless Sony changes Gaikai framerate, it is 30fps, very close to movies.

Bottom line, if you have a steady 5Mbps internet pipe into your house for gaming,
the picture you'll getting will be better than HD movies streamed from iTunes.
 
#5 ·
dezzpayne said:
That would suggest the bandwidth required is pretty low.
Compared to what? Gord is correct. If you're streaming a game at 720p that would almost certainly use more bandwidth than a Netflix film at the same resolution/quality. Netflix uses 2.8GiB/hour @720p according to their docs. Of course, this number is highly variable because you need to consider the specifics of the video being encoded, so I don't know exactly how they computed that value.

Why, you ask? Wouldn't it be exactly the same as Netflix?

It's more because you've got so little time to do the encoding (keeping the latency down), and you can't use any of the advanced two-pass video encoding algorithms, so your encoding efficiency (in terms of bitrate) will be relatively poor. For example, no b-frames can be used.

So if you're going to play a game for more than a hour, you should probably have downloaded it. This is especially true for 700MB PS1 games, but is also true for the ~2-6GiB last-gen console games.

So, if you were to finish a typical 6GiB first-person-shooter in 15 hours, you would have downloaded 42 GiB, or 7 times as much data as downloading the game.
 
#10 ·
#9 ·
dezzpayne said:
I actually find that a little strange. I would have thought those would be a no brainer for the cloud service.
Actually, if you can emulate using local hardware, you're in a far better position. It's lower latency and lower bandwidth use.

The issue with emulating PS3 hardware is that the PS4 isn't powerful enough to always be faster than the PS3 hardware when emulating it. That's when you need to run the software/games "in the cloud".
 
#11 ·
Right, agreed, local emulation is always going to be better. As long as it doesn't complicate the Playstation Now strategy. What I mean that is supposedly they will have a subscription service for the games in the cloud. Will PS1+PS2 games be separated as a different service entirely or will PS1+PS2 games show up in Playstation Now and the only difference is in the backend, eg PS3 games stream, PS1+PS2 games install locally?
 
#13 ·
His article was referring to North American numbers, and who really cares who sells more, the general public generally makes horribly informed and misguided decisions on all product purchases based simply on marketing, IMO the absolute worst way to buy any product, be it a console, a tv, a car or even food.
Perfect example you can get a far superior plasma TV for cheaper than any quality LED TV, yet LED TV's sell like crazy and Panasonic has to shut down there plasma division because of declining sales

Back on topic, I'm not buying into all this streaming yet, its a step back IMO.
We don't have the the bandwidth required to support full quality streaming. And you are screwed if company's start enforcing data limits.

Over a streaming service, I'd like to something a bit more similar to how games are installed on the new consoles. You get a min. amount of the game required to play, then you start playing. the difference being as you move to new levels they download as required, then you allow a certain amount of memory usage for "streamed" games and it deletes older info that hasn't been used, with the option to download it again in the future,

It would be a better model for gaming IMO. keep the quality but only download the part of the game you are playing, don't finish the game don't download the whole thing

But all this would require an active internet connection to use. And the general public made it very clear that they wanted to play video games in a post apocalyptic world.
 
#15 ·
Technically you don't get what MS offers with a PS4 for $100 less, you need to spend $100 to get the PS4 camera, so you would be saving $100.

I have no use for 2 PS3's anymore, $100 towards a second XB1 might be worth it

Kinect is by far worth the money, simply for voice control, ease of log in between users and a/v equipment control
 
#16 ·
If you say so lol , nope my camera never cost a 100.00 dollars ,60.00 . As for Kinect enjoy it then as I've heard most people wish they could have the choice to buy it like you can with the ps4 camera. Most wish you could just buy an XBOX ONE without it. Lets see a ps3 and a ps4 for 400.00 ,or an XBOX ONE for 400.00 ,hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gee not a hard decision to make, keeping my ps3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#17 ·
The reason it's included because it's so integrated into the operating system,

I can't see someone not wanting it after just a bit of time with it,

Also when you include it games will developed with it in mind, because everyone has one,

The PS4 camera will never be developed to its full potential because few people have it.

But I really do admire your blind lover for a company
 
#18 ·
pinner62, while your skillfully crafted posts leave little doubt in my mind that you are a sophisticated technology consumer, I don't think you fully understand the importance of input device standardization.

Back in the 80's, even though other computers did have a windows style GUI, the Mac just ran better. The primary reason for this was that it shipped with a mouse, and it was standard. Sure, you could get a mouse for the PC, but most software applications either didn't support it, or only supported the concept of a mouse as a afterthought. It wasn't until much later that the mouse provided a good user experience on the PC.

Even if the camera for the PS4 was as capable as the Kinect, the fact is that hardly anyone has one. Therefore it's unlikely that we'll see software that really leverages the camera on the PS4. Developers will spend their resources elsewhere. I think the PS4's camera will be like the Move for the PS3. It will be largely ignored.

I can see where Sony is coming from. The Kinect style user input hasn't really proven itself yet. It only seems to excel for certain categories of games (fitness, dancing, and some kids games) and whether there will be some UI breakthroughs using it over the next couple years is a open question. Sony took the less risky path.

That said, as someone who doesn't play many games on a console (I have a gaming PC that is faster than a PS4 and Xbox One put together) I think I would probably buy a Xbox One over a PS4 because with all the voice commands it has the potential to be a much cooler TV watching device. There is something futuristic about natural language input that I really dig, I find myself using Siri and voice commands on Android more and more often. It's definitely the future.

dezzpayne said:
What I mean that is supposedly they will have a subscription service for the games in the cloud. Will PS1+PS2 games be separated as a different service entirely or will PS1+PS2 games show up in Playstation Now and the only difference is in the backend, eg PS3 games stream, PS1+PS2 games install locally?
I remember during the Xbox One "disc" controversy, one of the features that Microsoft was hinting at was a Netflix-style game service. I think this has massive potential, and I think it would be wise for Sony to set something like this up. While old games may have be fun or have a interesting story, I'd bet that when people buy the latest gen console, they really cut back on buying games for the previous gen console.

While we're talking about playing PS1, PS2 and PS3 games via streaming on PS Now, if you're going to stream the games anyway why not play games in the cloud where the computer in the cloud is more capable than the hardware that you're using. For example, instead of wiring up some PS3s, why not wire up some high-end PC hardware and play games that the PS4 wouldn't be capable of playing? Why not let people play PS4 games on their PS3? Now that would be much more interesting than mere the backwards compatibility story if the gamer doesn't actually need to keep upgrading his hardware to play the latest games.
 
#19 ·
I remember during the Xbox One "disc" controversy, one of the features that Microsoft was hinting at was a Netflix-style game service. I think this has massive potential, and I think it would be wise for Sony to set something like this up. While old games may have be fun or have a interesting story, I'd bet that when people buy the latest gen console, they really cut back on buying games for the previous gen console.
I believe that's the plan. I read that Sony plans:

1: A 2 tiered system where you can buy legacy games 1 of or a subscription service that gives access to all.
2: Hardware independence.

Ultimately Sony wants the Playstation brand to be EXACTLY like Netflix. Stuff like their recent announcement to have Sony TV's in 2014 support Playstation now alludes to that. I love the idea of being able to play the back catalog right on my TV, but that just opens another question, if they are doing local emulation for PS1+2 games, how does that affect the BYOD strategy? It doesn't add up. If my Bravia TV can only support playing PS3 games but I need to keep my PS3 to play PS1+2 games then that really fragments the strategy and is a bad idea.

Also, it will be 2-3 years before many users move fully away from PS3. I bought 4 games for Christmas, 3 PS3 and 1 PS4. In Feb/March there are 5 games I want to purchase. 4 are for the PS3, 1 is for the PS4.
 
#21 ·
I bought my console for gaming too, it just happens to do ther other things, and with Forza here and Titainfall just around the corner, the 2 best games for this gen will be on XB1. voice commands and motion control are just a bonus and are the way of the future.
With company's like google, apple and MS heavily invested into voice control, its only a matter of time before its the norm, even my new tv has very basic voice control features.

I would think anyone buying a next gen console so close to release would be an early adapter and welcome these ground breaking features

Back on topic, I can't believe how much PS fan's (apparently the other word i used gets censored) were so insulted by MS always online feature because they wanted to sell their games, and now everyone all over the internet is jumping on this PSNOW things like its the greatest idea ever, games without disc's, I'm amazed someone else didn't come up with it first!
 
#22 ·
That word you can't mention could easily be applied to you as well Steve.....sorry! You try and hide it but it's obvious that you bleed green.

Microsoft did a horrible job of pitching their vision. There's no one to blame except Microsoft. You made it sound like Playstation fans somehow colluded to tarnish the image of the XB1's features and forced MS into this position. Sorry, we are not the Illuminati, we do not secretly control the world from the shadows.

What I find absolutely amazing is the complete 180 in popular media. The PS3 and Sony were constantly berated over the first few years of the PS3's existence. It was really miserable. Now I see a flurry of positive media around the PS4 and much more negativity around the XB1. See lots of articles around "resolutiongate" (don't hate me I didn't name it) but simply put the PS4 is more powerful (significantly it seems) and $100 cheaper. MS are in a difficult spot if their intention is to win this generation. They REALLY weren't expecting the PS4 to launch with 8GB of DDR5. Sure Titanfall looks amazing but guess what? So does Infamous 2nd Son and 1886 by Ready at Dawn (Ex Naughty Dog Employees). The key piece is that contrary to last generation it looks like multi-platform games are looking better on the PS4 and there's no reason to believe that won't continue to be the truth.

If you look at current sales XB1 is barely outselling PS3, forget PS4 and as I mentioned earlier, the PS4 hasn't even launched in Japan yet, Sony's home turf.

Week Ending Jan 25th
PS4 146K
XB1 77K
PS3 68K
 
#23 ·
I don't hide anything, Last gen I preferred xbox's online experience, I found the skill level of Xbox players far superior when it came to the call of duty series, My K/D ratios were proof of that, scoring well over 2:1 on PS3 and 1.5-2:1 on xbox, and I'm far more comfortable with the xbox controller. You also had very few player with mics on PS3, back to online experience.

This gen it is Forza 5, its the game I always loved the most, Forza 2 I had several lap times in the top 1000 and a couple in the top 100 in the world, I loved that game.

Beyond gaming I love the software interface. I use it features constantly, I have Xbox Music, it works so well with the XB1, I use skype, tv, nfl app, so much stuff more than gaming, It's a huge leap forward towards the connected life I live.

PS4 is yet to impress me with anything ground breaking, the hardware is impressive(for a console), the software is not.
 
#24 ·
Well said Dezzpayne , it's only 2 months into next generation and Steve604 is claiming to have the 2 best games this gen, and he's saying I'm a (well can't say it) ps fan . Lots of gaming with these new consoles the next 6 or 7 years to suggest that!!! I like to think I'm not blinded by MS tactics is all , I just trust and like sony's lineup better and there hardware is more reliable ,least has been for me. My PS4 is only a month old ( as I bought it around new year ) so the lack of games so far is not too disappointing .
 
#25 ·
I meant like current games so far

Oh and for resolutiongate, the reason xbox opted for low res. is to keep the frame rate,
PS4 is having problems processing 1080p at 60fps, causing a "judder" effect,
true story research it
 
#29 ·
I'll pass ,sounds like just another boring racing game that will suck extra money from you . Here's a review of the game so, so reviews . Why we talking Xbox on a PS4 article anyways. I just downloaded Outlast for PS4 ,it's pretty freaky and its free with the PLUS ,so far pretty fun. Definitely not spending 500.00 just to play Forza ,besides racing games are just ok for me .
http://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/forza-motorsport-5-review/1900-618/
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...ws/10961-Outlast-Review-Squeal-for-the-Camera
 
#30 ·
So you searched the internet for a poor review, and I don't disagree with the AI review,
if you are a rookie and play on the lower difficulty levels, most rookies tend to bang and crash, I can't even play on the lower levels cause the cars go to slow, I end up driving in to the back of cars in corners. play on highly skilled or expert and the game looks just like a weekend GT race.

I got a nitrous powered 600hp camaro in my garage that I personally installed every nut and bolt on, I watch GT racing every weekend, so racing games do it for me,

Not that you could, but get behind the wheel of a 925hp ZR1 corvette, put the game on expert and remove all assists, make the slightest steering error, brake too hard or give it just a bit too much throttle in a corner and you're done, then thread the needle through a series of turns at 150mph, sorry don't find that boring at all.


Anyway back to PS4, not sure if we are talking about the same game, but I hope its not Outland that is on Xbox arcade and I'm pretty sure you could get it for PS3 too.
If it is please explain to me how that game makes the PS4 a worth while system to buy?
How does that game display the PS4's superior hardware? are there any games out that show what PS4 can do so far? PS3 had superior hardware as well, it took till the end of it's life span to see any games that really took advantage of it.

I am partial to Xbox, but I haven't seen any thing that really impresses me a/v wise like Forza 5 and Rise from playstation.
 
#34 · (Edited by Moderator)
http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03...r-demos-and-more-coming-according-to-insider/

Another well sourced rumor on local emulation for PS1+2 games.

While I love the idea of local emulation especially with 1080P support I'd still like to see it in Playstation now. It creates a confusing strategy to split it.

Made a chart to breakdown support in their rumored new strategy.

Code:
             PS1       PS2       PS3      PS4      TV's    VITATV
PS1 Games    Y         Y         Y        Y        N          N
PS2 Games    N         Y         N        Y        N          N
PS3 Games    N         N         Y        Y        Y          Y
PS4 Games    N         N         N        Y        N          N
EDIT: Chart didn't survive formatting well

At the very least, Playstation now should have PS1+2+3 games in the cloud. Atleast that means that buying a Bravia TV or Vita TV (or any hardware device capable of running the service, think Roku!) gets you access to 3 generations of Playstation games. Much better value proposition than just 1 gen and will sell many more subscriptions to the service.

Basically Sony should/perhaps needs to untie the Playstation service from Sony products. Same for their VR, Oculas Rift has the advantage in that they are platform agnostic which is necessary for that type of device. It's not impossible for Sony to succeed with Morpheus (their code name for the VR glasses) but it makes it very very difficult for developers to really get behind it when their efforts only net them sales on the PS4 leaving over 1/2 the market on the table. Oculas Rift can target whatever they want and likely will go to PC's first. It's a great fit for Steam.

I read a rumor about MS buying Oculas Rift. That would be terrible and would se the VR scene back by years by having Sony and MS compete head to head. Those guys either need to stay independent OR cozy up to Valve.
 
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