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Old 2010-03-23, 04:00 PM   #16
Mozza
 
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Quote:
..and it's no wonder that MS is copying Apple, given 10% of MS employees are reported to be iPhone owners, they have a lot of experience with Apple!
I've always wondered how many Apple employees use a Microsoft product (whether it be an OS, word processor/office suite or hardware) at home...
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Old 2010-03-24, 11:19 AM   #17
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I doubt too many actually. I've worked with many actual MS employees over the years and they always have the latest and greatest (pre-release) software for both their business and home/personal use. I'd suspect that most of them are using Windows products at home - for the most part they're very enthusiastic about their own products.

The phone is a different category I think where the iPhone is in many ways leaps and bounds ahead of WM6. And like it or not, a social status or cultural thing.

If 10% of MS employees are using iPhones, I doubt that more than 1% are using an Apple computer at home.
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Old 2010-03-29, 09:10 PM   #18
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i use copy and paste often enough that i would miss it if it was gone. I use it on my diamond WM6.1/WM6.5.x

It comes in handy when im copying things from email to text to web ect ect...

Seems silly to remove such a basic function.. I mean why p-o people. No one will complain if its left in there but a hole bunch of people will complain if you remove it.
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Old 2010-03-30, 10:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TKG26 View Post
Seems silly to remove such a basic function.. I mean why p-o people. No one will complain if its left in there but a hole bunch of people will complain if you remove it.
TKG26: That's not the case at all.

I think this whole thing is being taken out of context. They didn't just remove it because they thought that would be a fun thing to do. They've re-written the OS from the ground up (as mentioned already) and they actually do think it will be part of Windows Phone 7 Series but *maybe* not by launch time or not in the full capacity by launch time.

Although everyone's debating the usefulness of it in this thread, I personally have not found a single person that I know personally who's actually used it on the iPhone. (My 2 cents on that)

And the story with background tasks is the same thing. It will be there to whatever degree that can provide by launch time.

Microsoft is very in tune with Apple and the history of the iPhone and what things people did and didn't like and they're not trying to repeat history unneccessarily. But the truth is ask any person what they thing of Microsoft OS's and most of them will talk about instability and crashes. So MS doesn't want to rush out any features (cut&paste or background tasks) too quickly and add unstability to the new OS. They're trying to correct their reputation, not further it.

Plus since they have tighter control of the devices and device specifications they'll be able to push out updates more rapidly. (Unlike WM which had like none.)

Research some of Paul Thourault's (or however the heck you spell his name) comments on this. He's got quite a close relationship with the developers and program managers as he's preparing his book on Windows Phone 7 Series for them for launch time.

The more accurate title of this thread would be: "Some features like cut&paste may or may not be fully implemented in the OS for the initial launch and may reach their full potentials with post launch updates".
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Old 2010-03-30, 11:37 AM   #20
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you dont know anyone that has used copy and paste on there iphone? I know my wife uses it all the time on her 3GS.

i use that daily on my WM6.5.x phone. its invaluble.
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Old 2010-03-30, 12:13 PM   #21
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That's what I said wasn't it. Asked 6 people with iPhones - 0 of 6 use it. And I've used my WM phone at least 6 days a week for 3 years and I'd estimate I've used cut and paste about once every 3-6 months. However, I'm not here to debate whether people want it or use it.

Point of my post wasn't the requirement but that these features are all coming with Windows Phone 7 (possibly even by the time it does launch) but their priority is on stability and doing as much as they can as best as they can by the launch date and not rushing out crap that wont work and will make the phone crash or the user experience negative.
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Old 2010-03-30, 12:53 PM   #22
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North of Calgary - I get your point about keeping things simple initially to maximize stability and for a complex feature like multitasking it's a valid point but copy/paste? Really? Microsoft introduced the Clipboard in Windows 3.0 over 20 years ago so I should hope they have the ability to include such a feature with compromising the stability of the whole system.

I think that's more the reason why there's such a backlash over this and the similar one that Apple faced with the initial iPhone. While it likely is true that the vast majority of people rarely (if ever) use the feature, what's the big deal about leaving it in?
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Old 2010-03-30, 02:28 PM   #23
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Grog thats how i feel. It just seems that its a basic component of any "windows" OS that to not have it just well does not feel right. I do use it often enough that i would miss it..

If its a case of its out right now but it will be back in ASAP while they try to perfect a new OS ok fine, im ok with that.. i dont understand it one bit... but im ok as long as it gets back in there at some point.
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Old 2010-03-30, 02:57 PM   #24
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Cut-and-paste isn't really used at the 'consumer' level, in my opinion. In the business smartphone level, I think it's a lot more prevalent. Even there, it's not a daily requirement.

That being said, it's probably not that important for WM7, since the business world has pretty much left Windows Mobile to for RIM, etc.
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Old 2010-03-30, 03:31 PM   #25
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Come on guys this is rediculous. The Mac had it back in 1984 as well but not in the iPhone until iPhone OS 3.1.0. Why do you think that was?

The issue is mostly around the interface and how to selectively get just the text you want through a variety of different applications when using only your fat finger on a small screen. For WM5 and WM6 most phones had a movement device or a stylus. The problem is particularly relevant for 3rd party applications where MS is not controlling the font size, location, or layout. The concern is to not have a negative user experience where people are cursing up and down that they can't highlight and cut just the right text they want from some other vendor's application. Instead the user gets too much or too little and hence it's MS's decision to just say nothing at all instead.

It's not that the programmers don't know how to implement a "clipboard". This comparing it to the Windows desktop OS is getting stupid. Again, Apple had cut and paste in their desktop OSs for 25 years yet took over 2 years to add that to the iPhone!

Let's review the facts here:

* Everyone wants cut and paste (or at least agrees it should be included)
* Microsoft will be adding it
* Microsoft may not be able to add it prior to launch and hence it may be fully, partially, or not at all implemented at launch time
* Microsoft never made a choice to "remove it", they're coming from nothing and it's on their list to add (build)
* Microsoft is not doing this just to piss off people, potential customers or not
* It's Microsoft's own choice as to when to launch this new OS and with what features or functionality
* It's your own choice whether to buy this product or not

The bottom line is: Microsoft is not soo stupid that they don't know iPhone users used to complain about this and it's not because they can't build a "clipboard". They'll add it when they think their software technology is ready. And if you don't like that, then don't buy their phone.

I don't know what else can be said about this.
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