OTA Station Status: Toronto, Hamilton (Closed - use 2011) - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

ralph_sinclair · 2005-07-22, 09:34 AM

This is a question for folks who are tuned into CBC-HD OTA in the GTA. When there is HD programming on the CBC channel, do they also broadcast an SD DTV feed of the same thing on one of the subchannels?

Tom.F.1 · 2005-07-22, 10:31 AM

The short answer is no. They carry the same programiming on their Analog Ch.5.
Please correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think anybody in Canada is using subchannels.

foxfan · 2005-07-22, 11:21 AM

Why would you want an SD subchannel of the same thing?

If CBC was to use a subchannel, I would like it if they would put CBC Newsworld on.

ralph_sinclair · 2005-07-22, 11:31 AM

I have an SVGA projector and it would be a lot easier for me to get an SD signal to it via PC, than to downsample the signal on the fly.

jeneral · 2005-07-22, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxfan

Why would you want an SD subchannel of the same thing?

If CBC was to use a subchannel, I would like it if they would put CBC Newsworld on.

That would be a good idea. It's too bad CITY doesn't do that with Pulse24. I guess these channels need the cable revenue to survive.

stampeder · 2005-07-22, 01:28 PM

I think the answer to your needs might be with a separate ATSC tuner. My LG LST 4200A outputs on all the usual types from DVI to RF, so I can watch a program in HD and simultaneously run S-Video to my DVR if I like. I'm not sure how this would work with a PC tuner card unless it also has lots of outputs.

alebowgm · 2007-04-22, 01:07 PM

I know there is a debate/thread going on about what is sensible multicasting...

timmy1 · 2007-04-23, 12:03 PM

Omni 2 ch. 44 is broadcasting. No sign of Omni 1 though.

99gecko · 2007-04-23, 12:04 PM

Sweet!!

Yaamon · 2007-04-23, 12:22 PM

Whoo yes Omni 1 is back on at 64-1.

Marc · 2005-07-22, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralph_sinclair

This is a question for folks who are tuned into CBC-HD OTA in the GTA. When there is HD programming on the CBC channel, do they also broadcast an SD DTV feed of the same thing on one of the subchannels?

CBC does not multicast. It's a quality issue. Each additional signal slices the available bandwidth that much thinner.

Daniel Tonks · 2005-07-22, 07:01 PM

Wow, a station that actually cares about eeking out the absolute best HDTV image quality... now that's rare!

robcreaser · 2005-07-24, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

CBC does not multicast. It's a quality issue. Each additional signal slices the available bandwidth that much thinner.

Marc.. this can't be the reason. The ATSC was developed specifically with multicasting in mind. Your engineering guys probably participated in some of the development of the specification. Your description of "signal" is also a little misleading. You are licenced to transmit bits on CH 20. One additional low bit stream dedicated to NW isn't going to impact the HD feed (most of the time)

Does your brand new encoder support adaptive rate encoding?

Are you already reserving some of the bitstream for other uses in the future? (descriptive video, SAP..)

Does your newsworld license from the CRTC exclude distributing newsworld OTA?

Your <6 year old audience would never notice the reduction in resolution on their total SD morning shows that run from 7 am till ??? Meanwhile you manage to run an insane total of 1 hour of morning news (from news world) on the HD network at 6am??? RC is a bit better with two hours 7-9am.

During the 2-3 hours of HD thats being delivered/week kill the NW feed. Its just a digital feed to the encoder right?

BTW Marc I really enjoy having you on line. I'm just suspecting there may be other issues beyond picture quality keeping NW, CP24 & NewsNET out of the respective OTA ATSC feeds of their parent networks.

HDTV101 · 2005-07-25, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robcreaser

One additional low bit stream dedicated to NW isn't going to impact the HD feed (most of the time) .

I've done a simultaneous comparison of the PBS HD channels out of Rochester NY., Erie PA., and Buffalo NY. Since I can pick them all up at the same time.. the HD channels on all of them run the exact same program from the PBS HD national feed.

Rochester WXXI runs with the most multicasting of 1 HD channel, 3 SD channels, and 1 radio channel.

Buffalo WNED runs one HD channel, and 2 SD channels.

Erie WQLN runs just the one HD channel.

Guess which one has the best and sharpest looking picture? Yes WQLN !
Rochester WXXI has the worst looking picture in HD. It's horrible looking, very soft, when you compare it up against WQLN.

Marc · 2005-07-25, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robcreaser

Marc.. this can't be the reason. ...snip

I was answering the original question about airing an SD version of the same material, not the other person's suggestion to add Newsworld. Newsworld is subscription based. I don't see a situation where it would make sense to put it on the ATSC transmitters for a long period of time.

Yes, ATSC supports multicasting, but it is still a compromise. Variable bit rates hide it better, but you still don't get something for nothing.

We transmit Described Video now, if the show has it.

2005-07-22, 09:34 AM	#1
ralph_sinclair Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 420	OTA Station Status: Toronto, Hamilton (Closed - use 2011) This is a question for folks who are tuned into CBC-HD OTA in the GTA. When there is HD programming on the CBC channel, do they also broadcast an SD DTV feed of the same thing on one of the subchannels?

2007-04-22, 01:07 PM	#7
alebowgm Veteran Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,920	I know there is a debate/thread going on about what is sensible multicasting... Last edited by stampeder; 2007-04-22 at 03:25 PM. Reason: Thanks - I moved the 2 posts to that thread due to the topic

2007-04-23, 12:03 PM	#8
timmy1 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 258	Omni 2 broadcasting again Omni 2 ch. 44 is broadcasting. No sign of Omni 1 though.

2007-04-23, 12:22 PM	#10
Yaamon Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 300 Steelcase Road W, #20 Markham,905470 9604 ext 230 Posts: 1,795	Whoo yes Omni 1 is back on at 64-1. __________________ CM4228/9521/7775;F.RmJvc70FH96/8300HDPvr/Dish 612;B.Rm LC52LE810UN/8642HD;Study LG50PK550/Xbox360;

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2005-07-22, 10:31 AM	#2
Tom.F.1 Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ajax, Ontario Posts: 1,928	The short answer is no. They carry the same programiming on their Analog Ch.5. Please correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think anybody in Canada is using subchannels.

2005-07-22, 11:21 AM	#3
foxfan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Montreal/Ottawa Posts: 1,022	Why would you want an SD subchannel of the same thing? If CBC was to use a subchannel, I would like it if they would put CBC Newsworld on.

2005-07-22, 11:31 AM	#4
ralph_sinclair Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 420	I have an SVGA projector and it would be a lot easier for me to get an SD signal to it via PC, than to downsample the signal on the fly.

2005-07-22, 01:28 PM	#6
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	I think the answer to your needs might be with a separate ATSC tuner. My LG LST 4200A outputs on all the usual types from DVI to RF, so I can watch a program in HD and simultaneously run S-Video to my DVR if I like. I'm not sure how this would work with a PC tuner card unless it also has lots of outputs.

2007-04-23, 12:04 PM	#9
99gecko Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Markham, ON Posts: 2,527	Sweet!!

2005-07-22, 07:01 PM	#12
Daniel Tonks Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Markham, Ontario Posts: 104	Wow, a station that actually cares about eeking out the absolute best HDTV image quality... now that's rare!