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Windows 8 General Discussion

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40K views 210 replies 35 participants last post by  j0dest3r 
#1 ·
Windows 8 has generated a lot of discussion - particularly regarding the Metro interface. Feel free to discuss anything related to Windows 8 - pros and cons. Comparison with Windows 7, Vista or XP are fair game. Which features do you love or hate? Will you upgrade right away or avoid Windows 8 as long as possible?
 
#2 ·
I have always been a person to get the latest edition of Windows. I typically upgrade or even buy a new PC when a new OS hits.

Currently I have three pretty new desktops with Windows 7 (so I don't envision a new PC) and am wondering if there is any compelling reason to upgrade? FWIW, the Metro interface seems like it will be of little no value to me since I have traditional monitors and will still be using the traditional desktop.

I have read 30 best features of Windows 8 but nothing seems terribly valuable to me. Seems to be more for tablets and laptops.
 
#4 ·
One of the main reasons is product support. MS was generous in supplying 5 years of mainstream support plus 5 years of extended support for Windows 7 Home Premium. (XP and Vista support were also extended.) For consumer products, the normal policy is to only provide 5 years of mainstream support with no extended support. That means no security updates after 5 years. It remains to be seen what MS will provide with Win8.
 
#5 ·
Dave those test have just backed up what I've been expressing. My win 8 on the same computer works faster on all levels. I didn't think I would ever use IE again (sometimes you have too). IE 10 is just as fast as my Google browser. The metro does not bother me at all, I've got a touch screen all in one and a regular laptop and they both work well. The $ 40.00 upgrade is worth well in my opinion.
 
#6 ·
Many people assume Operating System = User Interface. Granted, that's what you see, but there is much more to it than eye candy (or lipstick on the pig).

Pretty much with every new version of modern Windows OS Microsoft has improved what's under the hood. Windows 8 is no exception. If you can look past Metro UI I'd advise to upgrade. For improved performance and stability. It remains to be seen if it's going to be more resilient to virus/malware attacks, but if past is any indication, it's going to beat Windows 7 there too.
 
#9 ·
Windows 8 Release to Manufacturing (RTM) first week of August

Windows 8 is on track to Release to Manufacturing (RTM) the first week of August. For enterprise customers with Software Assurance benefits, they will have full access to Windows 8 as early as August. RTM is when Microsoft will turn on the commerce platform so that developers can start charging for their apps. With the Windows 8 Release Preview, all apps are still free for people to try.

Windows 8 will reach general availability by the end of October. This means that new Windows 8 and Windows RT PCs will be available to buy and upgrades will be available starting in October.

Source: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/...s-milestones-shared-with-partners-at-wpc.aspx
 
#10 ·
If you can look past Metro UI I'd advise to upgrade. For improved performance and stability.
The problem I have with that advice is that it ignores existing hardware and legacy software. I have a great Canon MultiFunction device that has no W7 drivers so I can now only use it as a photocopier. I have a Camcorder whose software isn't supported under W7.

In an environment where W8 is used with all brand new equipment and software, I would agree that running the latest OS is wise but nothing worse than upgrading and finding out your existing hardware or software doesn't work properly or is not supported under the new OS.

I'm willing to incur the pain to upgrade if I can point to some very substantive reasons on how it would improve my computing experience.
 
#12 ·
I have a great Canon MultiFunction device that has no W7 drivers so I can now only use it as a photocopier. I have a Camcorder whose software isn't supported under W7.
But if they have no W7 drivers then they also must have had no Vista drivers since the driver interfaces/APIs didn't change between Vista and 7. That says to me that those pieces of hardware are really old, and/or the companies that made the products don't ever update their drivers.

Do those devices have drivers for the current version of OS X or Linux?

That said, Windows 8 is pushing a new driver model to try and head-off this problem in the future. They are increasing the number of "class drivers" that they make. That is, they define a standardized hardware interface (think mouse, keyboard or USB flash drive) so that a standard driver can be used for everything. For instance, there will be a "printer class driver" that will allow a bunch of printers to plug-and-play. This was specifically developed for Windows RT (Windows on ARM), but I see no reason for them not to extend this tech to Windows 8 as well.

So, who knows. Even though your old Cannon device doesn't do much with Vista or 7, it may very well just "plug and play" with Windows RT or Windows 8. Or not. Who knows. At the very least Microsoft is making it so these companies don't necessarily need to write (or update) a driver, which is something they are apparently very uncomfortable doing. Well, except HP. I've used lots of old HP devices on newer versions of Windows. They've figured out how to update printer drivers better than their competition.

Printer class driver. For Windows 8, we rearchitected the print infrastructure to add class driver support. The majority of printers selling today are supported using the class driver, which means you’ll be able to “plug and print” on WOA without additional drivers. While the new architecture was needed for many reasons, we had printing from WOA PCs in mind from the beginning.
Source
 
#11 ·
BTW, Windows 8 and Windows 7 have identical device driver model. Devices that were supported under Windows 7 will work under Windows 8.

So, Hugh, what you were saying was valid when transition happened from XP to Vista (that's when device driver model changed). What's I'm saying is that IF you are running Windows 7, moving onto Windows 8 will not make things worse (UI aside).

Device drivers development is responsibility of each device manufacturer. And, yes, Canon was one of worst offenders when that transition happened. They have left many current devices in dust. I have great Canon scanner that never got WIA driver for Windows 7. Thank God for VueScan. I also have Canon camcorder that I never bothered to install provided software for. Luckily, 3rd party products for camcorders are miles ahead what comes in the box.
 
#13 ·
I understand what you are saying. My hardware and software became obsolete when I upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7 and theoretically that should not happen again if I go to Windows 8.

I say theoretically because I had hardware/ software that stopped working when I upgraded my Vista computer to W7. According to your logic should not have been problem.

While MS talks a good game, I'm skeptical. My guess is that come November and December there will be a lot of people flooding forums saying they have upgraded to W8 and now their <name of hardware or software> no longer works.

I hope I am wrong but the cynic in me says I will be right ;)
 
#14 ·
Compatibility Center for Windows 8

This may be a useful starting point:

Compatibility Center for Windows 8 Release Preview

Realistically, a lot of vendors consider their peripherals disposable, so once it's sold they don't care about updating the drivers for a new OS.

1. They prefer that you throw away the old stuff and buy their new stuff.
2. They want to focus on developing and marketing new products. Updating old equipment doesn't bring in any extra revenue.
 
#15 ·
While that is true for many vendors, I'm surprised that printer companies don't update their drivers. That business model has them selling the printers for a loss but making massive profits on ink. Why not let the user continue with the existing printer on a new OS? That means the printer company doesn't need to risk the user going to the store and potentially buying a printer from a competing company and in the future buying expensive ink from the other guys.
 
#16 ·
Most companies don't look at it that way. Driver upgrades are an expense and doesn't generate revenue. It's the first thing to get axed. I also doubt that printer makers are losing money on new printers these days. It's a mature technology and manufacturing is done in low cost countries.

The other side to the argument is that MS is failing to provide backward support for drivers. Which makes more sense, manufacturers updating drivers for thousands of devices or MS providing backward compatibility? MS takes a slash and burn approach to supporting older hardware. To their credit, MS makes an effort to support older software but hardware does not receive the same treatment.
 
#17 ·
The other side to the argument is that MS is failing to provide backward support for drivers. Which makes more sense, manufacturers updating drivers for thousands of devices or MS providing backward compatibility? MS takes a slash and burn approach to supporting older hardware. To their credit, MS makes an effort to support older software but hardware does not receive the same treatment.
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. In order to improve stability and security they HAD to change driver model. In old model, every driver was running at same level as kernel and had same access rights. It was sooo easy to crash or corrupt OS.

Also, they don't have access to hardware specs. Only manufacturers of hardware know enough to write device driver for it.
 
#18 ·
I understand the issues surrounding hardware drivers. MS could support older hardware drivers with an emulator and run it in a sandbox. They do it for software, such as MS Office, with Win7.
 
#19 ·
ScaryBob, the complexity of what you're proposing is monumental, unless you're going to require all other applications which will require this device to also run inside the same sandbox. And what sandbox do you believe that Microsoft Office runs in?

Besides, old hardware is... old. Computer gear usually doesn't "live" that long (5 years, tops?) and that basically means that the benefits of putting all the compatibility shims in your OS has a limited time benefit, but a much longer term cost. If the hardware is so old already that the IHV isn't going to invest anything more in it, how much money/effort should Microsoft put in?

Personally, I think that driver support is what separates the wheat from the chaff. It's how you can tell the difference between the "good" companies (NVIDIA. HP, etc) and the "bad" companies (Creative, Canon, etc) - at least in terms of PC peripherals.

I think Microsoft is doing the right thing though. There is very little innovation in printers now, so Microsoft can just make a "class driver" and then the printers makers can produce their products to align with that specification so it will work with the class driver. Then they won't need to invest in Windows drivers themselves.
 
#22 ·
The problem is that the O/S doesn't see the device because there is no working driver. There is one scanner app that includes its own drivers but it's fairly expensive. It would be better to just replace a cheap scanner.
 
#24 ·
It is VueScan I was thinking of. It's probably not worth buying for a sub-$100 scanner. It would be worthwhile for a high end model. The Pro edition would be needed to ensure Win8 compatibility.
 
#26 ·
My Sony Vaio notebook came with Vista Business which is very slow to load, so I just let it sleep, but waking up is still slow. I refused to give Bill another $100+ for WIN7. But, I have been running WIN8RP for a couple of months, and it is fast to load, and fast to wake up. I will buy it for $40 which will be a good deal for me.

BTW, I do not mind the Metro interface. All my applications go to desktop which behaves just like WIN7. Starting to use IE instead of my usual Firefox. I think this is the best Windows so far. I might even abandon Linus since it boots so fast.
 
#27 ·
Yeah I saw something about those new Samsung Ultrabooks and Windows booting in like 9 seconds or something like that.

I have Windows 8 on a Dual monitor workstation. It's actually pretty sweet! Desktop on one monitor with Metro on the other. My most favorite feature is having desktop up on both sides and having the task bar on both screens!

You can pop up the start menu on either screen by clicking on it in the hot corner where the start menu used to be.

Also noticed IE 10 Metro supports flash! Not sure if that is going to be making it into the final version, I suspect it might. That would make Windows RT and the Blackberry Playbook the only tabs that support Flash. (not sure about other Android tabs but the Nexus 7 doesn't support Flash)
 
#28 ·
I think I will upgrade all 5 PC's in my house. Right now, they are all running Win7 64 bit home premium. <---Getting the home premium was my biggest mistake. I should have spent the extra money. Dealing with 5PC's and not having the control ability I was used to in XP drives me nuts. Updating alone is a PITA.

At the time though, I only had two computers to deal with, my "server" and my wife's computer. Then bought a Dell system for the parents, just because I was too lazy to build another, (don't even get me started on that nightmare with the crap they pre-load) then got another two more computers for the home.

The boot times seem cool, but I doubt I will see much of an improvement, I am using an SSD as the boot drive, so I already see sub 25 second power on to fully logged in.

The next IE is what I am looking forward to. I have been a loyal supporter of Firefox and Thunderbird. However, their last few updates have wreaked havoc on me. Thunderbird constantly crashing, and firefox not loading websites. Hours upon hours spent trying to figure out the problems. For email, I just got fed up and switched back to Outlook. Thunderbird had literally finished installing the update, restarted itself, and crashed.

The new restart feature might just have me turn auto updates back on. That was an annoyance, it restarting without any real warning. 20 minutes is nothing. Especially if I am running an program overnight on the server. Drove me nuts to wake up to find a restart had occurred for an update, and the work was lost because it rebooted before the application had completed what it was doing.

Microsoft Security Essentials is something I do not want. I have specific programs for specific functions. For example, virus scanning, I use Vipre. I don't want an all in one solution. I find they very rarely work as well as tailored solutions.

The new windows search, I hope its not a resource hog like it in on WIN7. I have this shut off.

Does anyone know if WIN8 will have anything tailored for it and SSD's? I know when I switched to an SSD I had to do a few specific things to ensure longevity and performance.
 
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