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Power Bar (UPS, Surge, Etc) Info and Discussion

121K views 259 replies 105 participants last post by  jdevlin 
#1 ·
If you're guessing that I visited a Best Buy store recently, you are absolutely right. I am looking into getting a new home theatre type set up, so the salesman tried pushing a fancy power bar on me, specifically the Monster brand. After listening to his spiel about how it's good for your TV and blah blah blah, I asked him if the TV's in the store were hooked up to one so I could see the benefits of this device. He said there weren't any hooked up to one. I asked him why. If they are so great they should all be on them. He didn't have an answer for me and didn't sound so smart anymore. So, what's the real deal here? Did this salesman not know enough about a possibly good product, or is it just hype as I suspected? What should I really know about choosing a power bar to plug all my stuff into?


Edit by 57:

Performance and Purchase Link: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/203...surge-etc-info-discussion-16.html#post2455305
 
#182 ·
Wingfan, There are so many different products on the market with "coax protection", and most are ambiguous (or offer no info) as to how this is achieved...or what is actually being stopped.

In my opinion, based on a few examples that I had and opened to inspect, the "surge protection" is typically only applicable to the power outlets. The coax connector simply grounds out the outer braid of the coax. Excessive energy can still travel down the centre conductor of the coax, damaging equipment.

Given that most coax entering the home from outside (antenna, cable, satellite) is--or should be--grounded at or near the point of entry to the home, this level of protection is redundant and unnecessary.

True coaxial surge protection should capture or stop excessive energy along the centre conductor. There are several ways to accomplish this. Often an inert gas tube is used.

Bottom line: If the powerbar you intend to purchase cannot or does not specifically claim to stop coaxial centre conductor energy spikes, then it's probably not a true surge protector for coax.
 
#183 ·
It's still useful to run the coax through the power bar since it helps to neutralize ground loops and spikes that may be carried on the ground conductor. Other than that, I agree that many of these devices have questionable coax protection. The phone line protection is often useless as well since they often have little more than a small MOV between the center conductors. That won't do much good if a large surge to ground occurs on the phone line.

I tend to think of A/V protection like a bird on a wire. As long as all connections are at the same level to ground, damage will be minimal. I also add a GFI. It won't act fast enough to neutralize spikes, the surge protector does that, but it will shut the power off if extended ground faults, that could damage other equipment, are present.
 
#187 ·
Cables grounded at different points are still susceptible to ground loops and large spikes at AC or RF frequencies. It's best to ground all cables at a common point close to the A/V system in addition to grounding all cables where they enter the building.
 
#188 ·
According to a friend, they lost everything connected to their cable internet during the last lightning storm. During that same storm, I had my Wii power cable trip (didnt know about this 'protection'). It was plugged into a surge protector too. During any lightning storm, I always unplug anything of value, and did the same for this storm, but a surge or something must have occurred after the storm. Anyway, unplugging the power cable at both ends 'reset' it and now it works.
 
#189 ·
According to a friend, they lost everything connected to their cable internet during the last lightning storm.
Once a surge is all but invited inside, then a surge goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances. When cable already has superior protection, then that surge obtains earth destructively through those appliances.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either a surge dissipates harmlessly outside. Or that surge hunts for earth inside and destructively via appliances. The friend had damage because he had no effective protection. Because he all but invited a surge to go hunting destructively.

It is called electricity. A surge must have both an incoming and another outgoing wire to cause damage. If both conductors do not exist, then an appliance is not damaged. Damage most often occurs on the outgoing surge path - ie coax cable connection. An informed consumer than asks, "What was the incoming path?" That is where missing protection must be corrected.

Did a surge enter on the cable, do damage, then stop? That even contradicts what was taught in elementary school science. The friend had damage because he all but invited a surge to go hunting destructively inside his house. Protectors adjacent to appliances even make that damage easier.

To have protection means a protector must be within feet of single point earth ground. Separation between protector and appliances is also necessary for protection. But most important is the only item that absorbs those hundreds of thousands of joules. Where a surge dissipates harmlessly outside. Single point earth ground.
 
#190 ·
Safe to Use Short Extender on UPS?

Possibly wrong forum but my other UPS questions are here so... here goes.

Anyone know if it's safe to use a 1ft 18 AWG Outlet Saver Power Extension Cord with a UPS?

My new DSL AC adapter is using up the space of 2 sockets so now my cordless phone is without UPS.

Everyone seems to say never to use extension cords with a UPS but in this case it is fairly short and for a low load device.

If this isn't safe, does anyone have any alternatives? All these new wide AC adapters use up too much space!
 
#192 ·
Probably also earlier in this thread, but here's the link:

http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1372

You may feel free to ignore their suggestions with a short cord (I do on one of my UPS). I think it's to cover their behinds because some people use very inexpensive cords. "Power Strip Liberator" or similar chords are often used by people who have a bunch of wall warts.
 
#194 ·
Short extension cords work OK with an APC UPS. Just make sure it's 3 prong and heavy duty. Cords sold for use with air conditioners and other large appliances are best. I've used a 50 foot #12 AWG cord with a UPS and it worked fine. I've also seen what happens when an APC UPS is plugged into a filtered power bar. The results are unpredictable and can cause UPS shutdown and other odd behavior. Don't do it.
 
#198 ·
Are there UPS' with power switching capability

You can buy a web power switch like this but why don't UPS' have this functionality built into them? UPS' often come with software to do things like shutdown your PC but I would think that remote power switching capabilities would be a natural add-on to a UPS.

I could certainly use this for products that are occaionally unresponsive, such as a Hauppauge HD-PVR or even a PC that seems to have died and could use a reboot.
 
#199 ·
Several APC Smart-UPS units say, "Network manageable - Provides remote management of the UPS over the network." They are listed under 'Home > Products > Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) > Network and Server > Smart-UPS.' These are not your cheap big box store UPS units though.
 
#200 ·
Does remote management mean that you can turn on and off specific power outlets via software or does it just mean that you can run their software, such as PowerChute, remotely? If it is the later then that can also be done via RDP, logmein.com, etc for nothing.


I took a look at the docs for the 750/1000/1500/2200/3000 VA Tower and it isn't clear on this. There seem to be power outlet groups that may be able to be switched depending on the model. But that doesn't seem as flexible as the Digital Loggers device that I linked to above that allows any one of 8 outlets to be individually switched via a web client.
 
#202 ·
The manual states that with advanced menus enabled, the following option is available: "Control the Main and Switched Outlet Group to turn on, turn off, shutdown, or reboot." That sounds like it's possible to turn the outlets on or off remotely. Not having used these particular models, I don't know for certain.
 
#203 · (Edited by Moderator)
Surge Protectors Device Replacement Warranty ?

Does anyone have any experience following up on manufacturer's offer to replace electronic equipement connected to the surge protector ?

While browsing varying electronics stores last weekend , I stumbled upon these products and noticed the "marketing" logo claiming the manufacturer will replace up to specified amount (varied with cost of power bar) electronics damaged due to power surges ..etc, while connected to the device.

Is this just a bunch of BS ? A marketing ploy giving the consumer that warm fuzzy feeling to push the product ? I can imagine the hoops to go through and responsibilty of proof on the consumer to get the manufacturer to pay (replace) any devices damaged as a result of failure to protect as advertised. I think there would be so much red tape and obstacles the consumer would eventually give up trying to claim.
 
#206 ·
Purchasing UPS - newbie needs help

Hey Folks,

I'm about to pick up a new NAS and thinking it's a pretty good time to get a proper UPS. Problem is I don't know jack about how to pick one or what i'm looking for or what I should be powering with it. My main need is to keep items powered for 10-20min and if need be power them down properly (via USB). All of my computer electronics are tied into my entertainment system so most things already plug into a monster power bar which is a surge protector, so I don't REALLY need that help.

Here's what I need to protect power wise:
  • D-Link DNS-323 (2x320GB HD)
  • Buffalo Link Station LX 2TB
  • Buffalo Link Station LS 2TB
  • Synology 1812+ w/potentially up to 8x3TB drives
  • Shaw Cable Modem??
  • D-Link DGS-1008G (8 port switch)??
  • Netgear WNDR3700v2 (wireless router)??

I'm not really sure if I need to protect the switches, routers, modems, nor exactly how they'd be protected, but I guess power could surve through there too? Either way, I'm obviously not sad if they shut down, but would like the ability to properly power down the NAS boxes. Will I be able to power down all 4 (assuming they support it)? Or just one?

I know the Synology supports proper shutdown via a UPS and USB, and that will be my main focus as I'm fairly sure I'll be able to migrate anything important to that box, however, I'm moderately curious if multiple devices could be done.

Lastly, this is all for home, so I'm not looking to break the bank or anything too crazy, just trying to learn and figure out what I should be looking at.

Thanks in advance.
 
#207 ·
I used to have UPS' almost all over the house until this year. Started to replace all of them with good protective powerbars instead. My monthly electricity bill took a huge dive. UPS' are big power suckers. They consume 24/7. Are you sure you want this added expense?
 
#208 ·
Technically I don't pay power in my apartment so at the moment I don't care. Next place might be a diff story but...I think I'd rather be safe than sorry. But you do bring up an interesting point...one that I hadn't thought about yet or researched.

Any thoughts on what type or how big of a ups I'd require?
 
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