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Movie Channels and DD5.1, OAR Discussion

10K views 71 replies 12 participants last post by  JesseJ 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Edit by 57. See post 66 (link below) for the feedback on this issue directly from Astral - they always request OAR and DD5.1.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=312474#post312474

I was dissapointed to find that Hellboy is airing in HD on MCHD, but not in 5.1. It's airing in 5.1 on MC and Adrenaline Drive, but not on MCHD. That just sucks! I recorded it hoping to really sit back and have a nice theatre experience. BAH!
 
#52 ·
Neild said:
But it raises the question - why is MC-HD getting more shows in DD5.1 and TMN-HD so few? If it were a blanket studio policy, wouldn't both networks have a similar amount of DD5.1?
1. My list is old. As I stated, I stopped keeping track probably a year or two ago when more DD5.1 movies started to come out and after my conversation with my TMN-HD contact.

2. If you go to the MC and TMN-HD links I provided earlier in this thread (for December programming as an example), you will probably NOT see significant differences in the quantity of DD5.1 movies on either channel...
 
#53 · (Edited)
Neild said:
Most major studio releases are being shown in DD5.1 on MC-HD
When I look at the December MC list, I find the following are not listed as DD5.1.

http://www.moviecentral.ca/schedule/PDF/30day_HD.pdf

Deadly Isolation.
Dawn of the Dead
Magnificent 7 Ride
Roller Boogie
Freddy vs Jason
Platoon
Perfect Score
Beyond the Sea
Are we there yet
Elephant
Seed of Chucky
Dry White Season
Tom Sawyer
Lovers Revenge
Swarmed
Third man out
Illegal in blue
Murder at the Presidio
Navy Seals
Lost in Translation
Killer upstairs
Navy Seals
Secret Window
Hitch
Stanley & Iris
Ned Kelly
Hotel Rwanda
Paycheck
Criss Cross
Guns of the magnificent 7
Lovers Revenge
Gospel of John
Cursed
Coach Carter
d.e.b.s
Bright Young Things
Just Between Friends
Machinist
Revenge of Pink Panther
The Babysitter
Spellcaster
Supersize Me
Pride and the Passion

Granted, some of these may have been DD5.1 and some are "old".
 
#54 ·
57 said:
2. If you go to the MC and TMN-HD links I provided earlier in this thread (for December programming as an example), you will probably NOT see significant differences in the quantity of DD5.1 movies on either channel...
If you are relying on the guides that could be part of the issue. The guides are pretty unreliable about the aspect ratio and audio track of any given movie. It's almost like whoever writes them doesn't even take time to check the accuracy.
 
#55 ·
One question is whether Hellboy was missing DD5.1 on both MC-HD and TMN-HD? If so that suggests the source was holding back. Although I can't say for sure if separate sources are provided to MC and TMN or if they are really just one quasi-company that operates in both the East and the West.
 
#56 ·
If you look at the listings side-by-side though they are pretty consistent as to which movies are DD5.1 and which are not. As I said, there can certainly be some errors, but I'd expect there to be say 80-90% accuracy regarding DD5.1.

I don't recall if Hellboy was DD5.1 on TMNHD or not.
 
#57 ·
Sorry to talk about something different, but when a movie is not in 5.1, it is frequently presented in 2/1.0, or Dolby Surround, not simply Stereo. It is then up to the receiver to process the sound, be it Dolby PL/II/IIx or DTS Neo:6. While it is not 5 discrete channels, it frequently does an okay job representing the 5 channels.
 
#58 ·
If it is DD2.0, yes you will typically get pretty good surround sound (not everything has been properly encoded for DPL, but most stuff has.)

If the signal is DD1.0, you will NOT get surround sound, you will be listening strictly to the center channel if you invoke DPL.

I saw that Neild was frequently typing DD2.1. I don't believe there is any DD2.1, it's usually DD2.0 or DD5.1, with the occasional DD5.0 or DD1.0 programme.
 
#59 ·
My A/V Reciever shows most non DD5.1 sound on digital channels as DD2.0. Only a few show as DD2.0 with Dolby surround encoded. I rarely use my A/V receiver's sound processing modes so that DD2.0 with Dolby surround encoding is much better than the plain DD2.0 When surfing I can usually tell immediately when I hit a channel with DD2.0 with Dolby surround encoding just by the sound.
 
#60 ·
I can't imagine any modern program/movie not having DPL encoding. In fact, I'd suspect there'd have to be deliberate futzing with the 2.0 signal to remove the DPL encoding...something I can't imagine anyone actually doing...you probably wouldn't save any bandwidth since the DPL encoding is held within those two tracks anyways.

My Denon consistently reported DPL on pretty much all DD2.0 sources from TMN (when I had it).

Seems rather odd to me. No matter. I don't have TMN anymore anyways... :)
 
#61 ·
Yes, when I have been recording DD2.1 in these 'sightings' it was a reflection of my receiver that indicates which channels it thinks it's receiving. It could be influenced by the STB (Motorola DCT-6412, Pioneer Passport)

I find that most typical channels show up as 'L & R' (Digital) but most stereo movies on MC-HD it shows 'L & R & Sub (Digital)' I was a bit puzzled about the Sub channel appearing as distinct too. I don't think I have any matrix or audio effects turned on with the STB settings.

Quote possibly DD2.0 is the more accurate label?
 
#63 ·
JesseJ said:
Techinically it's not 2.1, it's 2 front, 1 rear, 0 sub. On my receiver it shows up as 2/1.0, while 5.1 says 3/2.1.
Thanks Jesse, I totally missed the boat on that. Checking my documentation the receiver is telling me "S means monaul surround channel". For some dumb reason I'd always thought it was for sub, since there are already indicators for Left, Right and Back surround.
 
#64 ·
Show: Article 99
Studio: Orion
Channel: Movie Central HD
Audio: Dolby 2.1 (stereo + surround)
Notes: Older movie, from 1992. IMDB lists it curiously with audio format 'Dolby SR'. Maybe that's 'Dolby Surround', one of those formats that came before Dolby Digital but after stereo?
 
#66 ·
I exchanged a few e-mails with my senior contact at Astral (TMN-HD). These quotes were approved directly by him, so there's no "heresay". Hope this clarifies a few things:

I asked him 5 questions and these are his responses.

1. Is my understanding about your purchasing philosophy always asking for DD5.1 and OAR correct?

Yes our HD specs call for OAR and 5.1 audio. Unfortunately these are not always available for PayTV masters. If they are available to us, we take them. There are a high number of full frame masters coming through.
2. Although there are certainly more DD5.1 movies than years ago, what reasons can you provide for many of the movies still not being DD5.1. Are some studios "holding back" or is this an "across" the board issue with most US studios (HBO/Showtime excepted since we seem to get DD5.1 on almost al lthe programming they provide you).

I think there is only one studio now that is holding back on 5.1 audio, so this really is not the issue. In a lot cases the 5.1 audio mix is simply not available for the broadcast master.
3. Is there any difference between what TMN and MC are able to "negotiate"for DD5.1/OAR?

There is no difference. In fact our two programming departments collaborate on bringing the masters into Canada.
4. Is OAR a separate issue. Are OAR movies more difficult to get?

OAR and 5.1 are separate issues. We are at the mercy of what the studio has made available for broadcast video distribution.
5. Any further clarification you’d like to add?

There is no issue with getting HD and 5.1 audio today. In fact there never was an issue of getting both together, if they were available and the studio had given us HD rights. A few years ago some studios were reluctant to give us HD masters here in Canada (this is no longer the case). At that time (a few years ago) 5.1 audio tracks were generally not available to us and when they were, it was very expensive to get dubbed. So, in those early days as HD was just coming on the scene, we did not always pay for the 5.1 dub and concentrated on the high profile movies. For some time now we have always ordered 5.1 audio (if available), regardless of cost.
 
#70 ·
57 said:
I exchanged a few e-mails with my senior contact at Astral (TMN-HD).
Great information. A couple of questions:

Astal (TMN-HD) said:
Yes our HD specs call for OAR and 5.1 audio. Unfortunately these are not always available for PayTV masters. If they are available to us, we take them. There are a high number of full frame masters coming through.
What does he mean PayTV masters? Are we still talking about the main TMN/MC channels here or pay per view?

Also when he says a high number of full frame masters does he mean widescreen films fudged to 16:9, or does he mean 'full frame 4:3'?

Astal (TMN-HD) said:
I think there is only one studio now that is holding back on 5.1 audio, so this really is not the issue. In a lot cases the 5.1 audio mix is simply not available for the broadcast master.
Can we assume this is Sony/Columbia/Tristar?

The only 2 major contempory films in our survey that are missing 5.1 are Hellboy and Big Fish, both apparently Sony/Columbia/Tristar.

If so, it must be inconsistent, since we have other S/C/T films airing with 5.1
 
#71 ·
TMN is "pay TV". He's talking about TMN-HD and MC-HD, although PPV-HD could be included as well, since those movies air a few months later on TMN-HD.

Yes 2.35:1 movies in 16:9 format.

TMN have only ever shown one 4:3 movie (other than Elephant which was 4:3 OAR) and that was ordered that way by mistake (Confidence). All other movies have been 16:9 or 2.35:1 and will be so in the future, unless there is an "error". (See post 47 for "confidence")

The offending studio may be inconsistent... Sony has certainly been at the forefront lately of DRM concerns.
 
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