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Please help me convert old PC into budget media center!

9K views 36 replies 12 participants last post by  mr_raider 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

Spent some time reading through a ton of topics, but couldn't really find a definitive guide to help build myself my first HTPC. Not really looking for much, main use will be for recording basketball / hockey games while I'm away with the ability to stream content to other rooms.

My old comp:
P4 - 2.8GHz
Asus P4P-800 Mobo
1GB OCZ Plat ram
Audigy 2 SB Live!
ATI X1650
Most likely going to buy a 1TB HD for storage.
Wired to a Linksys G wireless router.

Don't have a fancy HDTV, so as long as the quality is more or less broadcast equivalent, I'm happy.

My main concerns are finding a TV tuner that'll work well with Rogers Digital Cable, and finding the right software to use it. Since my hardware is kind've old, I don't think VMC will run all too well, so I'll probably stick with XP MCE unless popular vote says otherwise.

Suggestions? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
Your old PC is certainly capable of performing well as a standard definition media center (but not on Vista). For a low budget media center I would suggest XP with one of these free media center packages:

GBPVR (http://www.gbpvr.com/pmwiki/)
MediaPortal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/)

Or, you can go with Linux and use Myth TV (for example, http://www.mythbuntu.org/).

For tuner/capture cards, Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150 Series is plentiful and cheap and well supported on both Windows and Linux. You'll want to get the media center version (WinTV-PVR-150 MCE-Kit) as it comes with remote and infrared blaster. Alternately, if you get a non-MCE PVR-150, you can but the Microsoft MCE remote with IR blaster for around $25.

Hope that helps.
 
#5 ·
I'm not concerned with the control/remote. I just meant general recording, will this card support digital channels say.. LeafsTV / Raps TV etc?

I'm reading mixed reviews with cards that are connected through the STB's and some can record them while others cannot even with "ClearQAM" support.

I'm confused =/
 
#6 ·
I played around with MCE-XP on a very similar PC to yours sometime around last year. I too am a Rogers subscriber.

Connecting that Hauppauge MCE 150 TV Tuner to just the cable in the wall will tune in only the channels available via Standard (IE: Basic) cable. You will not receive any of the Premium Digital cable channels.

Your setup, should you wish to be able to record from any of the channels you subscribe to, will be:

Cable in to Rogers STB. STB out to TV-Tuner Cable/Line in. You then connect the video card to the TV in whatever fashion.

When you wish to record, say The Movie Network (TMN) from 8:00 - 10:00, Media Center downloads the Rogers Guide from the Internet. You set up your timer in MCE. When 8:00 rolls around, the Infrared blaster that comes with the TV Tuner card sends the signal to your Rogers box to turn on and tune to the appropriate channel. MCE then starts to record the incoming signal on either Channel 3 or the Line In port (whichever you defined at setup).

To my knowledge, there are NO PC TV-Tuner cards that are capable of receiving any of the Rogers Digital Channels on their own.
 
#7 ·
Given that your PC has more horespower than my HTPC, you should be OK. Granted, I only use mine for DVD playback and iTunes serving.

Most of the questions you asked are covered in the threads that are stickied at the top of this forum so I'd suggest going through those as a primer.

The short answers are that you will only be able to record the "analog tier" of Rogers cable unless you connect a capture card to the video output of your cable box.
 
#8 ·
Just to elaborate a little bit on what jvincent said - there is very little, if any, Clear QAM available from Rogers or any of the other cable cos in Canada. Therefore you have two options - analog cable tuning or tuning with the help of a set top box connected to the s-video input of your cable card. Since you want RapsTV and LeafsTV you will need the latter which means that you need a blaster and you will likely also want a remote.

By the way you don't need to go with XP MCE or Vista MC - there are the PVR software options mentioned above by cohoho and there is also BeyondTV and SageTV but they will both cost money.

I would recommend the PVR-150 MCE kit which comes with the remote, IR receiver and IR blaster.
 
#11 ·
I played around with MCE-XP on a very similar PC to yours sometime around last year. I too am a Rogers subscriber.

Connecting that Hauppauge MCE 150 TV Tuner to just the cable in the wall will tune in only the channels available via Standard (IE: Basic) cable. You will not receive any of the Premium Digital cable channels.

Your setup, should you wish to be able to record from any of the channels you subscribe to, will be:

Cable in to Rogers STB. STB out to TV-Tuner Cable/Line in. You then connect the video card to the TV in whatever fashion.

When you wish to record, say The Movie Network (TMN) from 8:00 - 10:00, Media Center downloads the Rogers Guide from the Internet. You set up your timer in MCE. When 8:00 rolls around, the Infrared blaster that comes with the TV Tuner card sends the signal to your Rogers box to turn on and tune to the appropriate channel. MCE then starts to record the incoming signal on either Channel 3 or the Line In port (whichever you defined at setup).

Red: I have the same PC at home and that is more than enough to watch TV on. It's a powerful chip, only thing you might benefit from is a bit more ram, 1gb is pushing it, 2gigs is more appropriate.

To my knowledge, there are NO PC TV-Tuner cards that are capable of receiving any of the Rogers Digital Channels on their own.
Hey, now there's an idea I have never thought of. So if I have a Rogers HD receiver and use the cable out of the receiver to my TV guide on my PC, can I then record HD shows/movies on the PC with the software you mentioned? Is it that simple?

If so, I can then get rid of the HD PVR that I pay an arm & a leg for and create my own pvr. The whole reason I never bought a TV card is because as you mentioned, it is incapable of descrambling the digital content. You might have figured a great away around that issue.

Also, people have two tv tuners, why is that? So you can watch tv and record at the same time? I guess I use a TV as well, so one card is good enough for me.

Great thread guys!
 
#13 ·
Hey, now there's an idea I have never thought of. So if I have a Rogers HD receiver and use the cable out of the receiver to my TV guide on my PC, can I then record HD shows/movies on the PC with the software you mentioned? Is it that simple?
There is currently only one way to record HD from cable in Canada and that is using a device called the Hauppauge HD-PVR. It is not a tuner card, it is an external device with Component inputs. It works with some of the software mentioned above - I am using it with SageTV as my PVR software.

If so, I can then get rid of the HD PVR that I pay an arm & a leg for and create my own pvr.
Yes but this route won't necessarily save you money. The HD-PVR is about $250 plus you need an HD cable box which will likely cost around $200. Then you need the PC, etc.

Also, people have two tv tuners, why is that? So you can watch tv and record at the same time? I guess I use a TV as well, so one card is good enough for me.
Some people put many tuners on their HTPC server and then use extenders (there are extenders for Microsft MCE/Vsta MC and SageTV) in the rest of their house. This lets you watch the show you record at any TV you have. The extenders look like DVD players and attach into your LAN either through wifi or wired network.

So you could build an HTPC server with 4 tuners and 4 cable boxes and not need any sources at your TVs except for an extender. You could then record/watch up to four shows at once and you could also stream photos, watch videos you download from the web, DVDs that you rip to your hard drive, music, etc.
 
#12 ·
"Is it that simple? "

Yes and no - but mostly no. AFAIK, with most video capture devices on a PC you can capture only standard definition video. If you are happy with SD recordings, an HTPC video recording solution is worth considering, but be prepared for lots of tweaking, occasional hiccups in controlling channels on the STB if using an infrared blaster, and potentially a poor spousal acceptance factor.

"Also, people have two tv tuners, why is that?"

Multiple tuners (can be more than two actually) allow you to watch and record at the same time, or record multiple shows at once.
 
#14 ·
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There is currently only one way to record HD from cable in Canada and that is using a device called the Hauppauge HD-PVR. It is not a tuner card, it is an external device with Component inputs. It works with some of the software mentioned above - I am using it with SageTV as my PVR software.
Ok, I'll look into the hd pvr by Hauppauge. Do I still have to buy a tuner card or is my HD stb good enough? Also, what is Sage tv? I've never heard of it (live in Toronto)

Yes but this route won't necessarily save you money. The HD-PVR is about $250 plus you need an HD cable box which will likely cost around $200. Then you need the PC, etc.
I can rent the HD STB for $12/month and I already have a PC. I'm currently paying $25/month for the HD PVR STD. So yes, even with buying the Haup device, I still save $ in the long run. There are also other providers that offer HD stb's for <$100 which I'm currently looking into as well.


Some people put many tuners on their HTPC server and then use extenders (there are extenders for Microsft MCE/Vsta MC and SageTV) in the rest of their house. This lets you watch the show you record at any TV you have. The extenders look like DVD players and attach into your LAN either through wifi or wired network.

So you could build an HTPC server with 4 tuners and 4 cable boxes and not need any sources at your TVs except for an extender. You could then record/watch up to four shows at once and you could also stream photos, watch videos you download from the web, DVDs that you rip to your hard drive, music, etc.
That's cool but since I live in a condo, it's a bit over kill. I just want my living room tv to record and leave the bedroom tv alone. That's somethin i'll keep in mind for the future though.

Also, what is the "IR blaster" people keep talking about? Do you mean adding IR to my PC? That's something I want to do, I just don't know how to. I am using Windows XP and I'm not willing to upgrade my OS (don't need any more computer headaches).

Thx everyone.
 
#15 ·
You don't need a tuner card if you buy the HD-PVR and it includes an IR blaster and a remote. (You can buy an HD-PVR at Canada Computers and NCIX just to name two shops. The IR blaster is used to change channels on your cable box and it usually also acts as an IR receive to receive codes from a remote control. But you can also likely use firewire to change channels which is more reliable. If you plan on keeping this setup for any length of time I would recommend buying an HD cable box as you can often get them on sale for about $170 and you often get programming credits. That is less than 15 months at $12/month.
 
#16 ·
Wayne: Thx for the tips. Yeah I'm thinking of swithing cable to starchoice soon so I can get a hd stb for under $100 with credits, so that works for me.

Two more q's:

1. If I output the component out to this Haup device, can I then output it to my Denon receiver to do channel upconversion? I would want to / need to do this. The same goes for audio (input to Haup, out to receiver) as I want to use my receiver to do sound processing.

2. Can I use my Harmony remote (880) with this IR blaster thing? Right now I can change channels on my stb easily with the 880, how much work is it to get this Haup device to work with the remote? How do I use firewire to change channels??? Never heard of this.
 
#17 ·
1. The content is not really coming from your HD-PVR the display is coming from your PC. Therefore you would plug your computer monitor output (HDMI likely but possibly component or DVI) into your receiver. That being said, the HD-PVR does have a passthrough component output so you would also plug component cables (and optical audio) from your HD-PVR into your receiver. Using the HD-PVR will likely mean that you have to use component rather than DVI as I don't think the SA4250HD (or SA8300HD) will output to both component and HDMI and you need component for the HD-PVR. Your component cabling would look like this Cable Box -> HD-PVR -> Receiver -> TV. Depending on how your receiver works the Receiver to TV connections could possible be HDMI.

2.Definitely - I have two 880s plus a couple of other Harmony remotes. You will just tell the Harmony setup web program that you are using a Hauppauge remote or tell it what software you are using. The remote that I am using is the Microsoft Media Center remote so I tell the Harmony setup to use that.

By the way, you asked earlier about SageTV. SageTV is a software home media program including PVR software. It was pretty much the first program to support the HD-PVR. I have been using Windows Media Center for a couple of years but I am switching to SageTV as it allows you to get HD into your HTPC. You can download a free trial from their web site. It costs about US$80.
 
#18 ·
1. Ah right, the Haup device hooks up via usb to my PC. I already have my PC hooked up to my receiver via dvi-hdmi and the coax out on the soundcard. The problem lies in the fact that my Denon won't upconvert via hdmi at all. So I might need to use the component out as you mentioned so I can do the SD upconversion. My TV has hdmi and my receiver is very new, Denon 1909, so equipment wise I'm good to go.
---> Do I need to hookup the audio out of the Haup to my PC or will the USB wire transfer both video and audio? It saves me the hassle of getting more cables/clutter. This way I'm only adding 1 cable from the Haup to receiver and the rest of the system would stay the same....

2. Ok cool, good to know the Harmony works...Whats this deal about using Firewire for changing channels? Doesn't the IR on the Haup work? Can you explain that a bit further?

3. Sagetv, understood, another thing to look into.....

Just out of curiousity, what was the advantage of doing all of this work vs. say using a regular HD PVR? You can add storage to it via firewire (from what I've read in the past)... Personally, I just don't want to pay for something that my PC can do just as well for me.

:) Thx.
 
#19 ·
1. Your PC can likely do the upconversion and if you want to get fancy you can use filters that can improve the picture as well. You are stuck with component but that is because there is no DRM over component since it is not D and but you are not really losing anything as it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between component and HDMI.

2. There is nothing wrong with IR blasters usually but you have to tape them to the front of your cable box and they can fall off. There also can be issues with using multiple IR blasters. Firewire is slightly quicker but there isn't a huge difference.

3. The advantage of a HTPC vs. a cable or satellite PVR are many including:
Backup TV shows.
Play online video files such as Youtube, etc.
Play downloaded videofiles (i.e. Divx, etc.)
Placeshift over the internet (i.e. which your TV from a hotel room in Japan)
Stream the content to other rooms in your house via PCs or extenders.
Automatically delete or skip commercials.
Automatically extend recording for sports events if the game goes long.
Able to play music or photos from your PC or anything from your PC.
Copy TV shows to other PCs or your laptop so you can watch them when you are on the road.
Transfer TV shows to DVD or BluRay.
Decent search capabilities (the SA8300HD sucks at this).
Better and more consistent guide data so that you don't miss recordings because they had "HD" or "LTBX" to the program name.
Ability to schedule recordings over the web or even your cellphone.

But cost and simplicity are not advantages for an HTPC - they are big disadvantages and keep most people away. The $13/month cost difference (between HD box and HD PVR box) is nothing compared to the upfront cost and time you spend on this.
 
#21 ·
Thanks Wayne. From a cost perspective, it looks like it will cost $240 + cost of a STB for $100 = $340. Not bad for such an excellent setup. A new HD PVR still costs around $500 and you're still saving money assuming you alread have a PC (which I do).

Fender: I actually own 3 PC's, one p4 2.8c, one laptop for travel and one powerhouse quad core q6600 (2.4 Ghz) OC'd to 3.2 Ghz, 4 gigs of ram and a 8800GT video card. So I will have no problems at ell encoding/playing back video content with my specs.

:)
 
#23 ·
Thanks Wayne. From a cost perspective, it looks like it will cost $240 + cost of a STB for $100 = $340. Not bad for such an excellent setup. A new HD PVR still costs around $500 and you're still saving money assuming you alread have a PC (which I do).
It will cost more - add in SageTV at US$80. You will need a remote or IR reciver/blaster for $50 (or you might as well get the PVR-150 MCE kit for about $80 which will allow you to record SD channels so that you can record two channels at once). You may also need to change case fans and CPU cooler on your PC to be quieter.

I am not trying to discourage you as I think this is by far the better solution but all in it will be more expensive than a cable company PVR that is less than $500.
 
#24 ·
I thought the Haup: comes with an IR remote/blaster, doesn't it? My cpu is already modded with case fans/ coolers, noise isn't an issue at all for me. This still works cost wise for me as my HD PVR from rogers screws up half the time and whenever a show goes over the regular timeslot I end up cutting off the ending of shows/sports. That drives me nuts!!!

I think the Haup lets you record one while watching another, that's good enough for me. (don't know if I need the MCE Kit).

Thanks for the tips.

Fender: That's true, Wayne provided some great info/tips here that would have taken hours to figure out on our own.
 
#25 ·
You're right - the Hauppauge HD-PVR does come with a remote and IR receiver/blaster. Unfortunately you can't record one show and watch another - that is one disadvantage compared to the SA8300HD. That is why I suggested the second SD tuner. Two record two HD shows or to record one HD show and watch another will take another HD box and another HD-PVR. The one other thing to keep in mind is that it is easy and cheap to add OTA HD capability to an HTPC. In my Sage box I have three tuners right now - the HD-PVR, an OTA HD card and an SD card. Last night I was able to record the Leafs game via CBC OTA HD, and the Raptors game on TSN-HD via the HD-PVR. But OTA may not work for you - in most parts of Toronto you should be able to pick up Buffalo and Toronto stations but you don't have your location in your profile so we don't know where you live.
 
#26 ·
I'm facing north so I will have some trouble picking up OTA signals unfortunately.

I live in Toronto. :) All I want is to be able to record a movie while I watch another channel (both in HD), can a single Haup do this or do I need to buy two of them? If I add a SD tuner then I wouldn't be able to watch the HD channels right? Ugh this is confusing..
 
#27 ·
When you say you are facing north I guess that means that you live in a building where have no line of sight to the south. You would need to have one HD-PVR for each show that you want to watch or record in HD simultaneously. If you add a SD tuner then you would not be able to watch HD on that tuner. Depending on what you watch having one SD and one HD tuner may be sufficient.
 
#28 ·
Yes my unit in my building faces north. So OTA won't work.

So there lies the rub, the 8300HD has dual HD tuners to let you watch & record simultaneously in HD. So basically you're still paying the same amount ~$500 to make a similar setup.

Thanks for the advice, I'll think about this a bit more and see what happens to prices around Christmas time. :)
 
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